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Author Topic:   Trashing The Planet: Where Do We Put Our Garbage?
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1 of 12 (847000)
01-15-2019 8:09 AM


Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
I got up bright and early and was reading Did Jesus Declare All Food Clean? when a couple of posts by new member candle2 caught my eye...namely about the toxins within unclean animals and how hogs used to eat all of Philadelphia's trash, according to him! Naturally, I wanted to research this piggish claim, so I began googling and stumbled upon this article: A Filthy History: When New Yorkers Lived Knee-Deep in Trash. The pigs, of course, have long since ceased being a solution to urban garbage, but the article that I read turned out to be fascinating yet disturbing. Some quotes which stood out:
quote:
It’s tempting to think of sacred tombs and ancient monuments as our best window into other cultures. But archaeologists have long known that if you really want to understand a civilization, to know its people’s passions, weaknesses, and daily rituals, look no further than their garbage.(...)In the U.S., the most wasteful country per capita, each citizen throws away an average of 7.1 pounds per day, according to garbage guru Edward Humes. So what place could be better to study the impact of this onslaught than New York City, which generates nearly 22 million pounds of household waste every day?(...)

So I began to think of the entire planet-at-large. The vast plastic dump in the pacific ocean. The places that each individual metropolis globally puts their garbage. Forget Jesus and unclean animals! This was a current problem that most people are taught to ignore. We somehow think that when we throw stuff away it magically disappears.

Here in the US we have only recently have been tightening our laws regarding proper disposal. What about Mexico City? Singapore? The 50 largest metropolises globally? Why is the Pacific Ocean said to now be "dead"?

Q: Why don’t people know where their trash goes?
A: Well, are they aware of where their water comes from? Or where their electricity starts? Or where their computer components were made? We are profoundly connected across the globe to people we will never know, and we’re profoundly connected regionally by the path of our discards and the material flow of bringing those things into our life. But I think we’ve been taught to ignore those kinds of things. I don’t mean that we learned it in school, but as a cultural assumption that underlies contemporary life, those are not our concerns.

So in conclusion, the issue goes far deeper than Jesus declaring pork clean or dirty. The issue goes to the very heart of our social intelligence or lack thereof.

Edited by Phat, : sub title


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 5:03 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 3 by frako, posted 01-16-2019 3:31 AM Phat has responded
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 01-16-2019 1:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2 of 12 (847020)
01-15-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-15-2019 8:09 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
China is a major importer of the worlds refuse. Im wondering how long a nation of a billion people will be a solution rather than a problem.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 8:09 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 01-16-2019 10:08 AM Phat has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 3 of 12 (847032)
01-16-2019 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-15-2019 8:09 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
We somehow think that when we throw stuff away it magically disappears.

Well our waste is going to make us magically disappear, is that irony or a funny coincidence.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 8:09 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 6:26 AM frako has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 4 of 12 (847034)
01-16-2019 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by frako
01-16-2019 3:31 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
Is there any sort of trash/garbage problem in Slovenia? What does Europe do with its trash?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by frako, posted 01-16-2019 3:31 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by frako, posted 01-19-2019 2:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3372
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 5 of 12 (847040)
01-16-2019 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
01-15-2019 5:03 PM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
Phat writes:

Im wondering how long a nation of a billion people will be a solution rather than a problem.

A nation of a billion people is not a problem at all.

The problem is a world of 8 billion+ people (eventually, anyway)... regardless of what nation they are a part of.
As long as you (and I) are alive, we are as much a part of the problem as anyone else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 5:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 11:53 AM Stile has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 6 of 12 (847042)
01-16-2019 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
01-16-2019 10:08 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
I don't know whether to deny pessimism and embrace optimism or whether I should simply accept reality. And reality says that there are some huge challenges for the human race in the next 50 years. The solutions will have to be far more creative and will need to make a big impact. Money alone won't fix these problems. Consensus and global resolve are needed...ironically one of the main things the fundamentalist Christians fear...a one world consensus and solution.

Is there any chance they may be right? Maybe...but it is clear that we dont have a choice. The world needs to attempt to unite to solve these problems before millions die....either by wars, disease,, or some other as yet unknown event.

I wonder what sacrifices will have to be made?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 01-16-2019 10:08 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Stile, posted 01-16-2019 12:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 01-16-2019 2:17 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3372
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 7 of 12 (847044)
01-16-2019 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-16-2019 11:53 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
Phat writes:

And reality says that there are some huge challenges for the human race in the next 50 years.

If it makes you feel any better... there have always been "huge challenges for the human race in the next 50 years..."

Some we handled well.
Others... not so much.

The solutions will have to be far more creative and will need to make a big impact. Money alone won't fix these problems.

The point for us - those of us not really involved in the politics or the power games to 'make the actual decisions' - is to ensure that we don't ignore the power we do have.

We do have the power not to ignore such problems.
We do have the power to impose upon our leaders that such problems require solutions and we want solutions - we do not want to ignore them.

The moment we begin to ignore the problems, and not do what we are capable of doing - we become part of the problem.

Consensus and global resolve are needed...ironically one of the main things the fundamentalist Christians fear...a one world consensus and solution.

Perhaps.

But, really, Christians shouldn't fear such a thing.
It's like socialism... many Christians "fear socialism" when they shouldn't really fear such a thing.

Yes... unrestricted, forced "socialism" for all problems and all issues is terrible. Christians (and everybody else) should fear such a thing, and fight against it.
But this shouldn't stop people from identifying specific problems that are better solved using socialism and applying socialism in a limited fashion to deal with those specific problems.

Yes... an unrestricted, forced "one world order" for all problems and all issues is terrible. Christians (and everybody else) should fear such a thing, and fight against it.
But this shouldn't stop people from identifying specific problems that are better solved using a one world order and applying a one world order in a limited fashion to deal with those specific problems.

I wonder what sacrifices will have to be made?

Mostly some egos will need to be bruised.
But don't worry, the ones that need to be bruised to solve such problems should really be bruised much more than this will do anyway.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 11:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19732
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 8 of 12 (847045)
01-16-2019 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-15-2019 8:09 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
No society in the past has outlived the damage they did to their ecology.

ref: https://www.goodreads.com/.../1577351.The_Day_Before_America*

The human race is doomed to die of willful ignorance.

Enjoy

* reading now


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 8:09 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 5:11 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16149
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 9 of 12 (847047)
01-16-2019 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-16-2019 11:53 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
Phat writes:

I don't know whether to deny pessimism and embrace optimism or whether I should simply accept reality.


A half-glass of water is the same reality whether you interpret it as half-full or half-empty.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 11:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AZPaul3, posted 01-16-2019 3:10 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3766
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 10 of 12 (847051)
01-16-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
01-16-2019 2:17 PM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
If it's wine instead of water then it's not a half-full/half-empty situation. There is just not enough wine in the glass.

Probably should get a bigger glass, too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 01-16-2019 2:17 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 11 of 12 (847053)
01-16-2019 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by RAZD
01-16-2019 1:10 PM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
RAZD writes:

The human race is doomed to die of willful ignorance.

If you had your life to live over again, would you do anything different? If you had a global soapbox and could say one message for humans, what would your message be?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 01-16-2019 1:10 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 12 of 12 (847226)
01-19-2019 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
01-16-2019 6:26 AM


Re: Living Behind A Silly Wall From Reality
We recycle some countries above 50% ours, about 35% and rising. But we do have a trash problem since china stopped buying our plastic waste its sorta been piling up waiting for it to be transported somewhere.

Just a few days ago i figured out that there are new rules to our waste collection because i dint get mine picked up. From now on i have to separate paper as well. Thing is i dunno if i have any waste that goes in to the mixed bag now.

What i men't before is the whole of humanities waste including co2 that is going to make humanity disappear.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-16-2019 6:26 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
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