Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8924 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-18-2019 5:23 AM
26 online now:
Tangle (1 member, 25 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 859,876 Year: 14,912/19,786 Month: 1,635/3,058 Week: 9/404 Day: 9/43 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Galaxy red shifts go in steps?
Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 168
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 1 of 9 (849373)
03-07-2019 1:38 AM


I tried searching this, but there are so many replies on each topic that I could not go through them.

Many years ago I read about Halton Arp's researches on the relation between quasars and irregular (peculiar?) galaxies. I thought that the 2DF surveys had refuted his claims about this connection.

But he also claimed that there was a periodicity in red shifts, and that they are not distributed randomly, and my recent reading indicates that this periodicity is still revealed in the latest galactic surveys.

Is this correct, and is there any explanation? It certainly makes one wonder about the redshift-velocity relationship. Perhaps there are ripple effects left over from the inflation era, that cause the expansion of space to occur in waves. (just a crazy conjecture).

Edit afterthought: If this was the case, then presumably the observed increase in expansion rate is because we are on the crest of the next wave.

Edited by Mike Holland, : Added an afterthought.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 03-07-2019 6:30 AM Mike Holland has responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3892
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 9 (849375)
03-07-2019 3:07 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Galaxy red shifts go in steps? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3 of 9 (849381)
03-07-2019 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mike Holland
03-07-2019 1:38 AM


Halton Arp was a controversial kinda guy. He had lots of problems with cosmology. He had some interesting and wrong ideas for sure.

But he also claimed that there was a periodicity in red shifts ...

Wiki tells us Arp's data were reviewed many times and found no such effect.

Perhaps there are ripple effects left over from the inflation era, that cause the expansion of space to occur in waves. (just a crazy conjecture).

Ohh, I like the crazy conjecture. A sort of baryon acoustic oscillations (BAO) like thing from the plasma but instead in the inflaton field itself.

That is quite good. Have a go-bag ready in case Stockholm calls.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mike Holland, posted 03-07-2019 1:38 AM Mike Holland has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Mike Holland, posted 03-07-2019 5:27 PM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 8 by Mike Holland, posted 03-10-2019 6:29 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 168
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 4 of 9 (849394)
03-07-2019 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
03-07-2019 6:30 AM


Thanks for your reply, but my reading of Wiki is that Arp's active galaxy-quasar connection has been refuted, but not the redshift quantisation.

On redshifts, Wiki just says that is is not accepted by most astronomers. This us understandable as it is contrary to the current big-bang paradigm (hate that word). Wiki does not provide any scientific references refuting the redshift quantisation, and I cannot find any though Google. Besides, it is not just Arp. There are many other reports of it by other astronomers, the most recent I could find being 2008. Here are a couple.

https://arxiv.org/abs/0711.4885

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 03-07-2019 6:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 03-07-2019 10:43 PM Mike Holland has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5296
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5 of 9 (849396)
03-07-2019 8:00 PM


I don't pretend to have kept up with this subject, but https://briankoberlein.com/2014/05/30/seeing-red/ appears pretty level-headed, with several interesting links. You can see the missing Figure 7 at https://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0506366.
Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Mike Holland, posted 03-07-2019 9:52 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 168
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 6 of 9 (849398)
03-07-2019 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by JonF
03-07-2019 8:00 PM


Thanks, JonF, I've read through your links (skipping most of the maths). From your links and mine, I gather that no periodicity is seen in QSO surveys, but it is seen in galaxy surveys.

Anyway, the Baryonic Oscillation survey research seems to be the last word on the subject (so far), and it seems to support some sort of periodicity. But I need to do more reading here.
Mike


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by JonF, posted 03-07-2019 8:00 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 7 of 9 (849399)
03-07-2019 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Mike Holland
03-07-2019 5:27 PM


Given the size of the surveys already done I would think that if redshift quantization were a thing the results would be stronger.

But there still is the question so more data is needed.

When the smart folks figure it out then we will know with some confidence one way or the other. Right now the consensus over the water cooler is that the redshift quantization is not favorably viewed but some new and interesting science may be on the way.

I wouldn't hold out much hope that redshift quantization will significantly derail the standard cosmological model as some of its fringe supporters hope. Right now the extraordinary level of data required to support the hypothesis is missing and none appear on the horizon.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Mike Holland, posted 03-07-2019 5:27 PM Mike Holland has not yet responded

  
Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 168
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 8 of 9 (849458)
03-10-2019 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
03-07-2019 6:30 AM


Just thought up a better explanation. I am sure you are all familiar with the inflating balloon analogy to explain how everything moves away from everything else in the expansion. Well, maybe God has to pause to take breath before each puff into the balloon.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 03-07-2019 6:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 03-11-2019 4:54 PM Mike Holland has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 9 of 9 (849494)
03-11-2019 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Mike Holland
03-10-2019 6:29 PM


That would be The Great Green Arkleseizure. Gotta watch out for that handkerchief part though.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Mike Holland, posted 03-10-2019 6:29 PM Mike Holland has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019