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Author Topic:   No Taxation without Representation.
jar
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Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1 of 31 (856247)
06-28-2019 9:06 PM


Does anyone think that the concept of "No taxation without representation" should still be valid in the USA today?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4258
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 2 of 31 (856311)
06-29-2019 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-28-2019 9:06 PM


Initial thought is, yes of course. Steeped in our history as a major element of government at the consent of the governed, representation/taxation is pivotal to that philosophy.

But I feel a story coming on so I'll wait to see the circumstances. I might imagine representation can take many subtle forms.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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Chiroptera
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Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 3 of 31 (856326)
06-29-2019 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-28-2019 9:06 PM


Are you implying that the holders of green cards shouldn't be required to pay taxes?

I'm intrigued. Say more.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

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jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4 of 31 (856330)
06-29-2019 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
06-29-2019 4:03 PM


Chiroptera writes:

Are you implying that the holders of green cards shouldn't be required to pay taxes?

Perhaps more than that even.

The first things I wonder about are "Who pays taxes; how are those taxes paid; and what percentage of the individuals income goes towards paying those taxes?"

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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xongsmith
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Posts: 1887
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.6


(1)
Message 5 of 31 (856399)
06-30-2019 3:13 PM


two words:

Puerto Rico


- xongsmith, 5.7d

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RAZD
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Posts: 19977
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 6 of 31 (856420)
06-30-2019 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by xongsmith
06-30-2019 3:13 PM


District of Columbia.

Enjoy


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jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 7 of 31 (856422)
06-30-2019 4:25 PM


Does a renter pay property taxes?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4258
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 8 of 31 (856444)
06-30-2019 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
06-30-2019 4:25 PM


And sales tax and gas tax.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 9 of 31 (856470)
07-01-2019 7:53 AM


Does someone who rides the bus pay the fuel tax?

Are Sales and Property and Fuel Taxes based on the income of the person paying the taxes?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 10 of 31 (856475)
07-01-2019 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-28-2019 9:06 PM


In my country, where only around 30% of the people pay direct municipal taxes or for electricity or for roads or for water, I can argue that only those people directly taxed for those amenities should be able to vote in municipal elections. Those who don't pay anything at all shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. No pay- no direct representation.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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Taq
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Posts: 7971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 11 of 31 (856509)
07-01-2019 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Pressie
07-01-2019 8:26 AM


Pressie writes:

Those who don't pay anything at all shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. No pay- no direct representation.

In a normal economy, the cost of those taxes are dispersed to the whole community. While a renter doesn't directly pay property taxes, it is included in their rent. Higher property taxes equals higher rent. Higher tariffs equal higher costs for products at the store, even if the consumer is not directly paying the tariff.


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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1887
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 12 of 31 (856533)
07-01-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
06-30-2019 4:21 PM


I thought the POTUS votes in DC counted. Sure, they don't have any Senators and the 1 Congress critter's vote doesn't count in the Congress.

But I think they vote in the General for POTUS. ???


- xongsmith, 5.7d

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ringo
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Posts: 16806
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 13 of 31 (856542)
07-01-2019 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Pressie
07-01-2019 8:26 AM


Pressie writes:

Those who don't pay anything at all shouldn't be allowed to vote at all.


I would say the opposite: anybody who pays taxes, directly or indirectly, should have representation. Illegal immigrants included.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 14 of 31 (856544)
07-01-2019 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by xongsmith
07-01-2019 2:11 PM


The Twenty-third Amendment gives the District of Columbia the same number of electors in the Electoral College that it would have if it were a state, except it can't have more electors than the least populated state.

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4258
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 15 of 31 (856575)
07-01-2019 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
07-01-2019 7:53 AM


Does someone who rides the bus pay the fuel tax?

As a part built into the ticket price, you bettcha.

Are Sales and Property and Fuel Taxes based on the income of the person paying the taxes?

Just in so far as the more you can (afford to) buy the greater the $$$ you pay in such taxes.

These are regressive taxes, meaning poorer people pay a greater % of their income in such tax then richer people for the same item at the same price.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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