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Author Topic:   The Failure of Progressivism
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1 of 14 (881111)
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create. The only progressive thing about Progressivism is that things get progressively worse over time. The Democrat Party is in an existential crisis where moderate voices are being drowned out by an ever-increasing shrill group of extremists.

For example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) is destroying NYC at an alarming rate. First she eviscerated billions of dollars and jobs for New Yorkers by killing the Amazon deal. Then she urges Mayor Cuomo to start taxing billionaire and millionaires at an exorbitant rate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll just move.... I mean, honestly... How can you be this stupid? Whether you like it or not those rich people prop up your economy regardless of how envious you are of them. Here's Mayor Cuomo pathetically groveling for New York's elite to come back? Haha, what for??? You were told for decades that this would happen and you didn't listen! You have no one to blame but yourself.

Say whatever you want about Mayor Guliani, but he cleaned up New York. The evidence is indisputable. AOC, De Blasio, and Cuomo have eviscerated the greatest city in the United States so that crime has soared well over 200% in the wake of their political grandstanding by "defunding the police," not because it does anything helpful, but because they are capitulating to an angry mob that they know is their voting base. This is just New York.

California is crumbling. People fleeing in droves. San Francisco is open sewer and so is Los Angeles. Governor Newsome, Nancy Pelosi.... These people think they can tax their way into prosperity. Never. Gonna. Happen. The entire state is insolvent. Failed economic policies after failed economic policies.

Seattle and Portland have become magnets for how deep failed Progressive policies can destroy cities. Normalizing violent riots??? If you aren't condemning it then you are condoning it. Period.

Austin, the most recognizably liberal city in Texas, is failing for the same reasons as San Francisco, Seattle and Portland. Homelessness abounds. Tent cities everywhere. Defecation in the streets. Needles littering the grounds. Aggressive panhandlers running people out of downtown. An insane City Council that thinks defunding their main police agency $150 million dollars is somehow going to improve a system.

Detroit, Chicago... liberally run cities that are imploding -- violent crimes, a nanny mentality, punishing the middle class at the expense of the poor.... Draconian gun laws yet the highest incidences of gun violence.... DUH!!!!! Why do you think this is working when all of the evidence demonstrates otherwise? Minneapolis, gone. Irreparable. Might as well be Chernobyl.

What happened to normal liberals? Moderate liberals that just want legalized weed and gay marriage? Now, if you don't check every single extremist checkbox you are effectively excommunicated and branded as Alt-Right if you don't think there should 875 genders, if you don't self-deprecate as a white liberal who needs to tithe for your sins, quietly accept Antifa as the thug wing of the Democrat party.

The DNC is completely out of control... political assassinations.... hit jobs.... extortion.... Propping up a mentally compromised man and then demanding he pick a VP that is 1. female, 2. black on the basis of identity politics and not credentials. According to her own father, their lineage is as slave owners in Jamaica.

This is the same woman who called Biden a racist, which he actually is, but she's cool with it now as long as it serves her interests politically.

Harris has jailed more black men than the entire New York City Police Department. Holy shit, this lady has some brass balls underneath that skirt. This chick is a hardline militant. Kamala Harris doesn't give a shit about black people. Kamala Harris gives a shit about Kamala Harris.

Your media is completely out of control! Forget a lack of objectivity... That's been going on for decades. Its pure rage bait these days to feed the rage junkies with. They will inflame any situation if it gets them clicks for cash... but these are the same people who pretend they are all about a redistribution of wealth while lining their pockets at the expense of the American people! You can't make this shit up; the irony abounds.

Look, you've lost your way.... And if your only metric for going this far to the Left is a hatred for Trump then you are helping Trump not hurting him. I don't want him in office any more than you do but if you can't see how this helping him in the long run then you are willfully blind. This extreme and increasingly radical views are delegitimizing liberal politics and making people vote conservative. And it is pulling people from the center further right, as they too are going so far to the right to counteract the left that is pulling hard left.

This cannot continue in this way. A house divided cannot stand. We need to be building the middle class again, not just financially, but mentally we need to find ourselves in the middle where actual change takes place.

Qui Bono??? Who benefits from all this horseshit? Its not Americans. China, Russia... they must be laughing their asses off waiting for us to implode internally so that they come after us militarily.

Tsk, tsk.... we reap what we sow. Rome is about to fall.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 7 by nwr, posted 08-18-2020 9:16 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 08-19-2020 1:24 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 3:04 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 2 of 14 (881114)
08-18-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:

I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create.


Reminds me of the Cold War. Did the Soviet system fail because of its own flaws or because its enemies spent untold billions of dollars in a concerted effort to make it fail?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 2:23 PM ringo has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 3 of 14 (881132)
08-18-2020 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:25 PM


Reminds me of the Cold War.

Me too

Did the Soviet system fail because of its own flaws or because its enemies spent untold billions of dollars in a concerted effort to make it fail?

A little of both but mostly because it was a lesson in futility... which is kind of my point, comrade.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:08 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 9:01 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 4 of 14 (881145)
08-18-2020 4:04 PM


Bump
Bumpity bump bump bump... Lets have it. Lets have the brilliant Progressive minds at EvC debate it.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5 of 14 (881162)
08-18-2020 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 2:23 PM


Hyroglyphx writes:

A little of both but mostly because it was a lesson in futility... which is kind of my point, comrade.


That's not an answer. It's a knee-jerk reaction based on your personal pejudices, not based on any real analysis. Same as the "point" in the OP.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 8:30 PM ringo has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 6 of 14 (881167)
08-18-2020 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:08 PM


Oh, that’s a non-answer? How about your typical one sentence drive-bys that don’t touch upon the substance? You are the queen of non-answers. Why don’t you go line item by line item, Ringo? That way we can tackle it in depth each “personal prejudice” of mine.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:28 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5623
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 7 of 14 (881169)
08-18-2020 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create. The only progressive thing about Progressivism is that things get progressively worse over time.

"Progressive" and "liberal" are not the same thing.

For example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) is destroying NYC at an alarming rate.

She's a member of congress. She doesn't have the ability to do that.

Then she urges Mayor Cuomo to start ...

When was Cuomo demoted to Mayor? Or should that be "promoted to Mayor"?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 8 of 14 (881173)
08-18-2020 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 8:30 PM


Hyrglyphx writes:

Why don’t you go line item by line item, Ringo? That way we can tackle it in depth each “personal prejudice” of mine.


I don't think there is any depth. I think you're making a fundamental mistake: assuming a cause and effect relationship that isn't necessarily there.

You think D is failing because of defects in D. I say maybe D is failing (IF D is failing) because it is being deliberately sabotaged by R.

And I don't "drive by". I do donuts on your lawn day after day after day after day after day after day....


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 8:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2230
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 9 of 14 (881177)
08-19-2020 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


Someone is Afraid of Intelligent Women
Hyroglyphx writes:

I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create.

As opposed to the successful USA conservative persuasion of 145,000 needless Coronavirus deaths (so far), and 68,000 deaths due to lack of health insurance, and the 72,000 deaths due to treating drug addiction as a moral failing. Oh, and the millions of brown and black people who don't count (Muslims, Immigrants, wedding guests murdered in wars of choice for fun and profit).

You must be looking forward to the deaths of billions due to environmental destruction with some excitement.

Thou Shalt Not Kill ------ my ass.

Conservative morality.

Next: blatant racism.


The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.

If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 9:40 AM anglagard has not yet responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 10 of 14 (881178)
08-19-2020 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


A house divided cannot stand. We need to be building the middle class again, not just financially, but mentally we need to find ourselves in the middle where actual change takes place.

HEAR, HEAR!


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 14 (881185)
08-19-2020 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 2:23 PM


Some Things Are Glaringly Obvious
I aam basically a political moderate, though if pressed I will lean more towards conservatism due to my observations about Liberal Consensus and how it most definitely clashes with Christianity. Idealists propose that the world needs unity and consensus and that the old autocratic "white privileged" ways of entitlement and exclusivity are or should be dead. What ends up happening, however, is best expressed in an old lyric by the British Rock Band The Who:
Meet The New Boss....Same As The Old Boss

And I am not a conspiracy theorist in any serious sense of the definition....yet I will state it here and it will be verified later

We are in the early stages of a War. We did not start this war, though our adversaries wwould accuse us of provoking it simply by refusing to join them. I agree with Hyroglyphix when he defends the moderately Conservative values...Trump notwithstanding.

My motto, among others, has been that You Must Stand For Something Or You Will Fall For Anything (& Everything)

The US has been engaged in a Stealth War with China for many years, and it ramped up during the Trade Wars and the emergence (mysteriously) of COVID-19. America need not be dominant and selfish as we were in the past, but we sure are not going to roll over and allow a global consensus of nations, led by Chinas Communist Party vs our own Way Of Life....steer this world in their general direction.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-19-2020 3:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 12 of 14 (881186)
08-19-2020 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by anglagard
08-19-2020 1:24 AM


No Easy Solutions
anglagard writes:

Conservative morality.

Next: blatant racism.

There are no easy solutions. I feel, however, that the other extreme will eliminate the voice of the working class in America from forging its own destiny. Yes, many of the white populists are racist., Yes, many feel threatened by intelligent women of color who advocate Globalist ideals. Many of us are comfortable with traditional values which helped our parents and provide a stable view of life for us.

Yes, we are guilty of exclusivity and entitlement. We fear the idea of an inclusive globalistic consensus. We fear being the minority who no longer have a powerful voice.

Personally, I believe that all races and cultures should have opportunity to advance, but I am most definitely against sacrificing my security (real or imagined) and essentially favoring reparations in order to provide greater equality and opportunity for the planet. But then I ask myself WWJD? And I'm not sure.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 08-19-2020 1:24 AM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 13 of 14 (881202)
08-19-2020 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by anglagard
08-19-2020 1:24 AM


Re: Someone is Afraid of Intelligent Women
As opposed to the successful USA conservative persuasion of 145,000 needless Coronavirus deaths (so far), and 68,000 deaths due to lack of health insurance, and the 72,000 deaths due to treating drug addiction as a moral failing. Oh, and the millions of brown and black people who don't count (Muslims, Immigrants, wedding guests murdered in wars of choice for fun and profit).

You must be looking forward to the deaths of billions due to environmental destruction with some excitement.

Thou Shalt Not Kill ------ my ass.

Conservative morality.

Next: blatant racism.

I guess you realize its indefensible and have to muddy the waters. Instead of addressing the points made you have to insert useless talking points that don't address a single point made. I'll play along for a bit...

Last time I checked no Democratic president did anything to stop the wars or get or even try to get health insurance for all until it became a big talking point. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon and uses it as a selling point but to this day no one has actually even attempted it. Barack Obama made Bush and Trump look like peace activists in terms of the endless war in Afghanistan. He even bragged about how much of a killer he was with his drones.... Soooo Progressive. Somebody pass the peace pipe cuz this Kool-Aid tastes like a strange brew from Jonestown. And Obamacare made insurance companies more profit by mandating to people who can't afford health insurance to force them in to it Awesome strategy....

Now we have a mentally challenged pervert trying to sit at the helm with a Top Cop who knowingly fabricated or suppressed evidence to get unjust convictions.... of black people, no less, at a disproportionate rate. She was banging San Fransisco mayor Willie Brown in exchange for political favors... while he was married. This is the Democratic nominee? You can't be pleased with this ticket.

Before you predictably derail the conversation to Trump, I don't support him in the slightest so its pointless to bemoan what has already been made manifest. If your strategy is "well, at least he's not Trump," that's less than compelling. I suppose we could hold up Lenin and say, "Well, at least he's not Hitler." Its not particularly helpful


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 08-19-2020 1:24 AM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 14 of 14 (881203)
08-19-2020 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
08-19-2020 9:01 AM


Re: Some Things Are Glaringly Obvious
I aam basically a political moderate, though if pressed I will lean more towards conservatism due to my observations about Liberal Consensus

That's pretty much where I fall on the spectrum. The divide is getting worse though. The Left has really gone hard left and so has the right... This is not healthy for any of us.

We are in the early stages of a War. We did not start this war, though our adversaries wwould accuse us of provoking it simply by refusing to join them. I agree with Hyroglyphix when he defends the moderately Conservative values...Trump notwithstanding.

We are in a bit of a Cold War and its heating up. The constant drum beating of partisan politics has made it so that unless you're an extremist, you can't champion liberal or conservative viewpoints.

It makes me wonder to what degree that countries like Russia and China are helping to instigate it. Russia has been caught using disinformation campaigns using social media platforms and I wouldn't put it past China who is definitely seeking aspirations to supplant the US.

The US has been engaged in a Stealth War with China for many years, and it ramped up during the Trade Wars and the emergence (mysteriously) of COVID-19. America need not be dominant and selfish as we were in the past, but we sure are not going to roll over and allow a global consensus of nations, led by Chinas Communist Party vs our own Way Of Life....steer this world in their general direction.

The mishandling of COVID is an utter embarrassment. China and Russia are taking notes as to how and when to use biological weapons. To think that the US was this woefully unprepared really highlights our vulnerabilities. Going to war with either of those nations is an existential threat to all of humanity and should be avoided until there is simply no other choice.

These are dark times... dare I say, even apocalyptic.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 9:01 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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