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Author Topic:   Be It Stealth or Cyber: We Are In A War With China
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 43 (882156)
09-14-2020 9:34 AM


China is ran by the CCP. Chinese Communist Party. Most thinking people whom I know label the CCP as an aggressive party who are staunchly Nationalistic towards China and in fact a strong competitor (at best) to the United States and our own National interests. At worst, many have stronger opinions: China's Communist Party is a threat to the world, says former elite insider

There are several reasons why this threat needs to be taken seriously. We are not war mongers yet are in fact in the early stages of a war with China. They have stolen business trade secrets brazenly and now openly for many years. They have trashed US business interests and placed the welfare and diligence of China over honoring contracts with US firms, often stealing trade secrets and then opening another division within the same companies to compete with the former US partner. They willingly send many Chinese students here to learn all of our ways, and yet bring this brain material home to build up their own regime. They are taking the best we have, adopting it, and ruthlessly exploiting our knowledge for their gain.

CNN writes:

Cai Xia is no stranger to defying expectations. During her years at the Chinese Communist Party's top training center and think tank, the outspoken professor had surprised many with her liberal ideas and support for democratic reform.

More recently, she caused a stir with a spate of scathing denunciations of China's ruling elite and the country's leader Xi Jinping -- a rare rebuke from a longtime insider that led to her expulsion from the Party earlier this week.
In an interview with CNN from the United States, where she has lived since last year, Cai went a step further by calling on the US government to double down on its hardline approach towards Beijing. She said she supported the Trump administration's ban on telecommunications giant Huawei, which Washington claims is a national security risk due to its alleged connection to the Chinese government -- an allegation Huawei has repeatedly denied.
Cai also called for sanctions on top Chinese officials and appealed to the international community to join hands in stopping the Communist Party from "infiltrating" global institutions and spreading Xi's "totalitarian" ideals.
"The relationship between China and the United States is not a conflict between the two peoples, but a contest and confrontation between two systems and two ideologies," Cai told CNN.

It may well be true that the US itself exploited other nations 100 years ago and ruthlessly stole from them, but now the shoe is on the other foot and the former hunter has become the hunted. There should be global oversight to China's behavior.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 9:40 AM Phat has responded
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 09-14-2020 12:45 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 22 by Pressie, posted 09-15-2020 10:50 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 2 of 43 (882157)
09-14-2020 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
09-14-2020 9:34 AM


The issue is that too many in the US are simply willfully stupid.

Thinking we are at war with China is particularly stupid!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 9:34 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by vimesey, posted 09-14-2020 10:08 AM jar has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:12 AM jar has responded
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:23 AM jar has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1187
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 3 of 43 (882158)
09-14-2020 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
09-14-2020 9:40 AM


Tribalism needs an enemy, sadly. It’s been right wing populism’s tactic throughout history - point at a bogey man villain, and people will vote you in. They’ll even back you when you take away their vote, because of the emergency posed by the bogey man villain. When people slowly begin to realise that the bogey man was just that - a fictional bad guy - it’s too late, the damage has been done.

(ABE: this is not to support the Chinese government, whose human rights record is disgusting. It’s to point out that Trump couldn’t give a toss about human rights - he just likes having a foreign bogey man with a different coloured skin).

Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 9:40 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 43 (882159)
09-14-2020 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
09-14-2020 9:40 AM


jar writes:

Thinking we are at war with China is particularly stupid!

We most certainly don't have a mutually prosperous relationship with them. Consider what the CNN article says:

  • Now, according to Cai, the Communist Party aims "to replace the free and democratic system of modern mankind represented by the United States, and the values and order of peace, democracy, freedom and justice," with its own model of governance. In a sense, this is another type of Cold War. Global ideology is up for grabs and the US is losing. Our way of life will mean little if we are de-fanged. I've warned before that the money (dollar) may collapse or drastically inflate. China wouldn't care. Granted we are not at war, but we are being challenged and certainly no longer favored as the new global super power asserts its dominance.

  • For more than three decades, Cai had closely dissected the Party from within. Throughout her academic career, she examined its internal workings and ideologies. She taught class after class of officials, first at a local Party school in her home province of Jiangsu and later at the Central Party School in Beijing -- the elite training ground for China's most senior cadres and political rising stars.(...) She had a strict upbringing, ingrained with her parents' revolutionary belief that the people should be freed and empowered to rule the country.

  • I saw how miserable people could be without any rule of law, any protection of rights. It scarred me deeply, and since then I've always been on alert that our country cannot return to that era," she said.
    "Since Xi came to power, however, his language, ideas and actions are all harking back to the Cultural Revolution -- for us who have been through that period, we're very sensitive (to that shift)."

    I also have been listening to an audiobook.
    Stealth War: How China Took Over While America's Elite Slept

    The content is sobering.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 9:40 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:24 AM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14719
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 5 of 43 (882160)
    09-14-2020 10:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 3 by vimesey
    09-14-2020 10:08 AM


    Conservatives vs Liberals Again
    I will agree with you that lots of this comes from the Conservatives and the Trump regime (or supporters of)

    The book I am reading is described on Amazon with this intro: (The author is likely conservative)

    quote:
    The media often suggest that Russia poses the greatest threat to America's national security, but the real danger lies farther east. While those in power have been distracted and disorderly, China has waged a six-front war on America's economy, military, diplomacy, technology, education, and infrastructure--and they're winning. It's almost too late to undo the shocking, though nearly invisible, victories of the Chinese.

    In Stealth War, retired Air Force Brigadier General Robert Spalding reveals China's motives and secret attacks on the West. Chronicling how our leaders have failed to protect us over recent decades, he provides shocking evidence of some of China's most brilliant ploys, including:

    • Placing Confucius Institutes in universities across the United States that serve to monitor and control Chinese students on campus and spread communist narratives to unsuspecting American students.

    • Offering enormous sums to American experts who create investment funds that funnel technology to China.

    • Signing a thirty-year agreement with the US that allows China to share peaceful nuclear technology, ensuring that they have access to American nuclear know-how.

    Spalding's concern isn't merely that America could lose its position on the world stage. More urgently, the Chinese Communist Party has a fundamental loathing of the legal protections America grants its people and seeks to create a world without those rights.

    Despite all the damage done so far, Spalding shows how it's still possible for the U.S. and the rest of the free world to combat--and win--China's stealth war.



    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by vimesey, posted 09-14-2020 10:08 AM vimesey has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14719
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 6 of 43 (882161)
    09-14-2020 10:23 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by jar
    09-14-2020 9:40 AM


    Is This An Either/Or Issue?
    jar writes:

    The issue is that too many in the US are simply willfully stupid.

    Are you more favorably disposed towards Globalism or Nationalism?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 9:40 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:26 AM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33010
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    (2)
    Message 7 of 43 (882162)
    09-14-2020 10:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
    09-14-2020 10:12 AM


    And it is all TESTAMONY.

    BUT there is also evidence; evidence that can be tested and verified.

    The world is big. China has enough trouble ruling China.

    China is as technology capable and advanced as the US and maybe even more so.

    China's economy is second only to the US.

    The US population is less that 25% of China's population.

    The US has a really poor record when it comes to wars.

    The real threat is that Trump envies Xi and wants to emulate Xi.

    Let Trump continue and we won't have to have war with China, we will be far worse off than China.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:12 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:29 AM jar has responded
     Message 12 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:39 AM jar has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33010
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 8 of 43 (882163)
    09-14-2020 10:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
    09-14-2020 10:23 AM


    Re: Is This An Either/Or Issue?
    Phat writes:

    Are you more favorably disposed towards Globalism or Nationalism?

    LOL.

    Think Phat, sheesh, think.

    Stop listening to the idiots that keep giving you these binary choices.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:23 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:33 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14719
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 9 of 43 (882164)
    09-14-2020 10:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by jar
    09-14-2020 10:24 AM


    Threats To Our Way Of Life
    So you are saying that Trump is a bigger threat to the US than China? Well if so, the elections will change that. Biden is more favorable towards China, but I am not sure I trust them. They are playing this game for real and it is full contact.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:24 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:38 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14719
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 10 of 43 (882165)
    09-14-2020 10:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by jar
    09-14-2020 10:26 AM


    Re: Is This An Either/Or Issue?
    jar writes:

    Stop listening to the idiots that keep giving you these binary choices.

    Im the one breaking down the issues into binary concepts. I am not simplistically minded, however. You have always said that "the bill will get paid" and I fear that China will play a role in diminishing the US Dollar. You cant argue that this will be good for the US middle class. China's middle class will rise while the United States falls economically. The trick is keeping most of the world on our side rather than their side. (or am I being too binary again? )

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:26 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33010
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 11 of 43 (882166)
    09-14-2020 10:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
    09-14-2020 10:29 AM


    Re: Threats To Our Way Of Life
    There is still a very hi probability that Trump will get reelected or that if he loses he will redo the election of 1960.

    AbE:

    And you have never understood anything about money.

    Edited by jar, : see AbE

    Edited by jar, : no Q in AbE


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:29 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14719
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 12 of 43 (882167)
    09-14-2020 10:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by jar
    09-14-2020 10:24 AM


    Here Is A Hypothetical Question
    jar writes:

    The world is big. China has enough trouble ruling China.

    China is as technology capable and advanced as the US and maybe even more so.

    China's economy is second only to the US.

    We have discussed the idea of a Global Government before so I am going to pose a hypothetical question to consider:

    If there someday was a global government, which system of prior government would it (or should it) model itself under?

    I would argue in favor of a US style of government. Certain not the CCP.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:24 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 10:52 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33010
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 13 of 43 (882168)
    09-14-2020 10:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
    09-14-2020 10:39 AM


    Re: Here Is A Hypothetical Question
    No, we have never discussed the idea of a Global Government.

    And again, I have never seen any evidence that you know what a US style government might be.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 10:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18809
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 14 of 43 (882169)
    09-14-2020 12:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
    09-14-2020 9:34 AM


    Phat writes:

    It may well be true that the US itself exploited other nations 100 years ago and ruthlessly stole from them, but now the shoe is on the other foot and the former hunter has become the hunted. There should be global oversight to China's behavior.


    So the Gambino family is becoming a threat to your Genovese family and NOW you want the rest of us to crack down on organized crime?

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Phat, posted 09-14-2020 9:34 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Trump won 
    Suspended Member
    Posts: 1928
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 15 of 43 (882183)
    09-15-2020 12:15 AM


    theyre the new nazis and if we don't reelect trump they will destroy the world

    Replies to this message:
     Message 26 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 12:52 PM Trump won has not yet responded

      
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