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Author | Topic: Belief Versus The Scientific Method | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I have noticed that *we* are all over the map in regards to my ongoing assertions and discussions regarding my personal beliefs.
In this proposed topic, I want to gather all of the various discussions which seem to hijack nearly every topic and bring them all here. (Yes Percy and Moose, it is my fault that so many other topics melted in to this ongoing discussion between myself and the peanut gallery.) For the record, the peanut gallery includes most other active posters on EvC Forum and anyone is free to join this discussion, but my main antagonists are Jar, AZ Paul3, Ringo, Tangle, PaulK, dwise1,and Stile. (Whom I respect more than the others as he is nicer.) Can we put this in The Great Debate Thread? And by the way, Percy...you and I never argue. Its ok to join the fray if you have any points which you feel that the others have not addressed. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : added dwise1 to peanut gallery list "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Admin Director Posts: 12715 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread copied here from the Belief Versus The Scientific Method thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
It might be worthwhile covering some very basic terms that so often get misused.
Reports: Reports are simply recitations of the facts under consideration. Inference: Inference are additional statements not directly found in the report. Let's start with these two since they are almost always evident in EVERY post from Phat and yet almost never identified. An example are the alleged alleged "Supernatural" events he and others claim to have experienced. A report of such an event would be who was there, when it happened, what was heard or smelled or tasted or seen. But any statement about supernatural or demonic or spiritual causes is not a report, it is an inference. Now inferences can be very important and in science inference is a major tool. A geologist can look at the shape of a valley and infer that it was produced by a glacier or a river or geological slippage or faults. But those inferences then get tested to see if there is any validity. But that step never happens with spiritual or supernatural or demonic events. In those events the inference is made and then simply adopted and included in the Report as though it were factual and not an unsupported inference. So if we are going to talk about belief versus the Scientific Method it is important to also understand words and language and not call an inference a report. Edited by jar, : applin spallin Edited by jar, : No reason given. My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5726 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Belief vs the scientific method?
As in compare and contrast for efficacy? Isn't that like comparing a Dick and Jane reader with the Feynman lectures? The difference in efficacy has been established and recognized for quite some time, now. I'm afraid it's well past time to think anyone here could effectively challenge the conclusion already reached that science is the superior ontology. So, what is the purpose of this thread? Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
First off, I'm a bit mad at Percy for placing this in the Science Forums as it insists that your evidence-based approach win by default. There are some things, however, for which no objective evidence is possible. My plan is to bring all of our scattered arguments here and I would have attempted to explain my argument more fully but evidently since we are stuck in a Science Forum, my assertions, experiences, beliefs and interpretations will get shot down without an argument.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6
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The big possibility Phat is that you might learn how to think; and learn the tools that will allow you to understand how much you try to avoid thinking and reality.
Consider the post on the difference between reporting and inference. Stop and look at you posts and try to identify how often you mistake reporting and inference. My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
As long as you show me politely where I am inferring rather than reporting, I will go along with this topic in a Science forum. When you start calling me stupid and bash the CCoI as pitiful and disgusting, you are going to get ignored by me and we wont have a discussion. I plan on fully explaining my thought process even though it may fall short of scientific critically thinking standards.
As you know, I have long objected to several of your ideas. We know darn well that Loki or Coyote are not even in the same league with Jesus Christ and if we don't, I give up trying to convince you and will simply pray for you in the future. Now I will consider this argument if you argue it using scripture, but if you simply say that its a CCoI fantasy due to lack of evidence I will walk away. I have much more productive uses of my time than to get embarrassed in front of an impressionable group of lurkers who are already poisoned by your explanations regarding Theology and Belief. Edited by Phat, : added ranting "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Look at your accounts of your experience Phat.
What parts are actual reporting and what parts are pure inference? My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5726 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I don't think it would make a difference what forum this was in. It wouldn't change my approach to your arguments and you shouldn't change yours because of it either.
Yes, there are, like garden fairies, YHWH, the luminiferous aether.
It won't make any difference, Phat. Wrong is just wrong no matter what forum it's in. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5726 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
No need. We're good.
So very true, which is a situation I hope changes this next century.
You can say we are all delusional, Phat. Question is whether we live a good, humane, let's help people live better kinda delusion or the bad, inhumane, let's kill people kinda delusion. Your kind doesn't fair very well. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5726 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Yes, please do. Just understand that you are not doing so in a vacuum. You will be challenged, drawn out, drawn down, drawn and quartered, eviscerated, hanged and harrassed and verbally pilloried. Do you really want to do this? As you have observed, you've already lost. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I turned to an old friend, in order to better understand reports and inferences.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5726 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Since Genesis 7:21
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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