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Author Topic:   Endogenous retroviruses prove evolution.
Barry Deaborough
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Posts: 5
From: LAVIT
Joined: 05-31-2021


Message 1 of 7 (886731)
06-02-2021 6:09 AM


Here is my FAQ on endogenous retroviruses (ERVs) and how they prove common ancestry, particularly among us primates. Any further questions, just ask. Endogenous Retroviruses - Frequently Asked Questions

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by dwise1, posted 06-03-2021 1:30 AM Barry Deaborough has responded

  
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Message 2 of 7 (886732)
06-02-2021 6:47 AM


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dwise1
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Message 3 of 7 (886740)
06-03-2021 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Barry Deaborough
06-02-2021 6:09 AM


When I first heard of this line of evidence (Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics: Another Argument in the Evolution-Creation Controversy, Creation/Evolution Journal (CEJ), Winter 1986-1987, pp 34-46), its significance was explained through the analogy of fictitious items in catalogues, directories, and other reference works. If somebody else later publishes a work on the same subject matter, how could you tell whether they had done their own research as you had done or they had simply plagiarized your own work? After all, two different people researching the very same information (eg, a phone directory or map) should be expected to come up with the same directory.

Well, if you added false and hence useless items and those same false (ie, fictitious) items also show up in the second reference work that you suspect of being a plagiarism, then that's your proof in your copyright infringement lawsuit. If those fictitious items are missing, then it's most likely not a plagiarism.

Do you remember Sidney Powell filing an election fraud lawsuit citing reports of election fraud in Edison County, Michigan? The slight problem with that is that there is no such county in Michigan, nor anywhere in the USA for that matter. Since you can look up counties on Wikipedia, I tried to look it up and at that time (early Dec 2020) it redirected me to the page, Fictitious entry:

quote:
Fictitious or fake entries are deliberately incorrect entries in reference works such as dictionaries, encyclopedias, maps, and directories. There are more specific terms for particular kinds of fictitious entry, such as Mountweazel, trap street, paper town, phantom settlement, and nihilartikel.

Fictitious entries are included either as a humorous hoax or as a copyright trap to reveal subsequent plagiarism or copyright infringement.


So the analogy is that you should be unable to tell whether the genes for a useful feature in two different species being the same or nearly the same is because of common ancestry or had simply been created the same way since they served the same function (ie, why expect God to not be able to simply reuse something that works?). But having embedded non-functional genetic code such as ERVs also show up in species that seem to be related, then the only explanation would be common ancestry.

Edited by dwise1, : added link to CEJ article


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Barry Deaborough, posted 06-02-2021 6:09 AM Barry Deaborough has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Barry Deaborough, posted 06-03-2021 3:37 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Barry Deaborough
Junior Member
Posts: 5
From: LAVIT
Joined: 05-31-2021


Message 4 of 7 (886741)
06-03-2021 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by dwise1
06-03-2021 1:30 AM


Hi dwise1. My FAQ deals with the function of ERV components. It is just about the only thing that creationists have to fall back on, often attacking a straw-man of their own making, that "evolutionists" need all ERV genetic material to be "junk". This is a false and dishonest argument.

Follow the links in the FAQ. Endogenous Retroviruses - Frequently Asked Questions

6. ERVs do stuff. Doesn't that prove that they didn't originate from retroviruses, but were designed?

7. ERVs promote the transcription of host DNA. Doesn't this prove they are designed?

8. ERVs are essential in reproduction (syncytin and the formation of the placenta). How can this be?

9. Aren't the same ERV genetics in the same places in different species because they have to do the same job?

10. But how can you rule out design as an explanation?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by dwise1, posted 06-03-2021 1:30 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-03-2021 8:41 AM Barry Deaborough has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15602
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 5 of 7 (886742)
06-03-2021 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Barry Deaborough
06-03-2021 3:37 AM


Welcome to EvC Barry
Hi Barry. Welcome to EvC. I browsed some of your internet pages. You have put in a lot of work! Mr Desborough's Creation-Evolution Pages. And Stuff.

You will fit in well here. We have no problem sharing your links and would like to have some productive conversations with you. I was looking for your autobiography and couldn't find it. Tell us a little about yourself and why you chose this path as your passion. You and dwise1 likely will get along well. He has his own page from years in the making, and his conversations are entertaining and informative. Like you, he despises dishonest creationists.

You and I may not get along so well. I read your page promoting the idea of a One World Government. The guys here give me a hard time for being a believer rather than a critically thinking humanist, so im used to arguments and have somewhat of a tough skin.

So tell me a little bit about yourself.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Barry Deaborough, posted 06-03-2021 3:37 AM Barry Deaborough has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Barry Deaborough, posted 06-03-2021 8:48 AM Phat has responded

  
Barry Deaborough
Junior Member
Posts: 5
From: LAVIT
Joined: 05-31-2021


Message 6 of 7 (886743)
06-03-2021 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
06-03-2021 8:41 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC Barry
Hi, and thanks for the welcome, Phat. For a quick answer, I will link you to a couple of my pages. I am a retired teacher and software engineer.

About

Why Evolutionary Science is Vitally Important - a personal view


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-03-2021 8:41 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 06-03-2021 9:12 AM Barry Deaborough has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15602
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 7 of 7 (886745)
06-03-2021 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Barry Deaborough
06-03-2021 8:48 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC Barry
Well done pages! I think im going to get that book, Less Than Human and listen to it on audible if I can. It looks interesting. Percy challenges me to be more rational and less whacky, and I owe it to myself to keep an open mind.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Barry Deaborough, posted 06-03-2021 8:48 AM Barry Deaborough has not yet responded

  
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