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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18281
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 284 (913001)
10-08-2023 9:29 AM


After an initial attack by the Hamas Palestinian militants, Israel has officially declared war for the first time since 1973. I can't describe it any better than you can read it, but wanted a topic on a war in the early stages which likely moves the atomic scientist's doomsday clock even closer to midnight. Comments?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2023 9:36 AM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8522
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 2 of 284 (913004)
10-08-2023 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-08-2023 9:29 AM


You do realize this new conflict is a distraction? The Russians have been trying to open a new front to distract the West from Ukraine. The master strategist may hide in his bunker but he still has friends.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 9:29 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 3:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18281
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 284 (913014)
10-08-2023 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AZPaul3
10-08-2023 9:36 AM


Christian Apologetics and Israel
In the netherworld of Christian Apologetics, a war between Russia and Israel has been talked about for many years.
You are right in that Russia is behind this. It has been prophesied and is now happening.
Biblical References:
Ezekiel 38:1-39:16,Daniel 11:40-45 NKJV

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2023 9:36 AM AZPaul3 has replied

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 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2023 4:09 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 5 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2023 9:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 22 by Dredge, posted 10-13-2023 12:49 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 284 (913015)
10-08-2023 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-08-2023 3:45 PM


Re: Christian Apologetics and Israel
quote:
You are right in that Russia is behind this. It has been prophesied and is now happening.
No. It hasn’t.
quote:
Biblical References:
Ezekiel 38:1-39:16,Daniel 11:40-45 NKJV
Ezekiel 38 is rather unclear about who it means. Daniel 11 is not. The “King of the North” in verse 40 is Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
Daniel 11:2-4 sets the scene and tells us that the chapter is about the Kingdoms created from the division of Alexander’s Empire. Russia is not one of them (and did not exist until much later). There’s really no excuse for ignoring that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 3:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8522
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 5 of 284 (913020)
10-08-2023 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-08-2023 3:45 PM


Re: Christian Apologetics and Israel
It has been prophesied and is now happening.
“Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. I am against you."
And in that region of the heavens he will array his army: the king himself will lead his elite Hippo-vultures in the clouds on the right wing, 80,000 strong; his other cavalry, mounted on giant birds with wings like lettuce leaves, hold the left. The Moon's stalwart infantry will hold the center, posted on the spider web and will deploy Millet-launchers and Garlic-fighters, and his light-armed Flea-archers and Wind-runners, whose long tunics carry them about like sailboats in the fierce winds of the celestial realm.
Repent! The End is neigh!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 3:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 10-09-2023 7:51 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18281
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 284 (913026)
10-09-2023 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by AZPaul3
10-08-2023 9:06 PM


Re: Christian Apologetics and Israel
I would expect such mocking tomfoolery out of you...but this war is worse than Ukraine ever hoped to be. A lot depends on the US response...but I don't expect any peace deals to be brokered anytime soon.
A Summary from the BBC::
  • Israel's defence minister orders a "complete siege" of the Gaza Strip, two days after shock attacks in Israel left hundreds of civilians dead
  • Rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza continue, with explosions heard in Jerusalem
  • Food, fuel, electricity, and water supplies from Israel are being cut, ministers say
  • Israel says it has regained control of its communities near Gaza - but some militants remain active
  • More than 700 people have been killed in Israel since Hamas launched its attacks on Saturday morning, including 260 at a music festival
  • Israeli says dozens of people have been kidnapped in the attacks - most have been taken into Gaza
  • More than 500 people have died in Gaza, after Israel launched massive retaliatory air strikes
  • Some of the rocket attacks have been so precise that it is believed that only one of two superpowers must be behind them and that means Vladimir Putin. Israel is a strong military power and is believed to have at least 100 nuclear weapons, but it is a small country and this war is believed to be in its early stages---more combatants may come against them. Two other points that have come under question include the equipment left behind in Afghanistan, estimated to be close to 50 billion dollars worth and the money that was paid to Iran. I don't know much about that yet and am brushing up on my studies. Israel is not ignorant of Iran's duplicity and there may be some consequences for Iran planned. So far, however, no solid evidence of Iran's involvement has been found.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2023 9:06 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22462
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 7 of 284 (913077)
    10-10-2023 2:19 PM


    Israel is Reaping What it Sowed
    Hamas is now much in the news, but before Hamas there were other Palestinian organizations. First there was the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) that vowed, along with most of the Arab sympathizing nations, to push Israel into the sea. There was no compromising, no negotiating. Israel ceasing to exist was the only acceptable answer. The Camp David Accords negotiated by Jimmy Carter in 1978 didn't bring peace, and neither did Bill Clinton's attempt in 2000. Israel was as much under threat as ever.
    Why can't there be peace in the Middle East? While the Palestinians bear significant responsibility for the lack of negotiated compromises, they are not the ones with the power. Israel has almost all the power, and they've made an industry out of mistreating Palestinians. They've taken their land and blown up their homes. They subjected Gaza to a blockade. Some Palestinian families are entering their fourth generation of living in refugee camps. Until Israel demonstrates sincerity and commitment in improving the lives of Palestinians they will continue to live under threat of Palestinian retaliation.
    I admit to not following the region closely, so if there are any responses I expect they'll contain corrections and additional context.
    --Percy

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-10-2023 3:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
     Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 1:27 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Member
    Posts: 4401
    From: Oregon, USA
    Joined: 08-27-2006
    Member Rating: 5.9


    Message 8 of 284 (913079)
    10-10-2023 3:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Percy
    10-10-2023 2:19 PM


    Re: Israel is Reaping What it Sowed
    I admit to not following the region closely
    Yeah I don't follow events in the Middle East very closely either.
    The latest attacks by Hamas were predictable and I am fine with every single one of the terrorist perpetrators being killed. The lives of Palestinians is atrocious and has been since Israel was formed in 1948 and the Israelis have had all the power for more than 75 years and their policy has always seemed to be subjugation. This has also, ironically, forced all those terrorist organizations to hide among innocent blockaded Palestinians so Israeli retaliation always kills many innocents, further fueling hatred and future terrorist attacks.
    After 75 years maybe the Israelis should rethink their long term strategy. Until they do, I don't support aid from the U.S.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

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     Message 7 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 2:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 9 of 284 (913090)
    10-11-2023 1:27 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Percy
    10-10-2023 2:19 PM


    It All Started With the Nakba
    I had to do some homework to formulate this post. In order to do my homework, I went to a neutral source of information: Aljazeera. (Of course, I use the term "neutral" loosely in that I believe that in this modern day and age, all news is a matter of subjective truth.) One man's power is another man's security. That being said, it appears that British Zionism had the support of some special interests who wanted to control the Suez Canal and needed a friendly power in the region.( Balfour Declaration and all that) It appears that the justification used was that Israel had the land before the Palestinians did. Based on that logic, the American Indians could justifiably claim my city and boot me out. If only they had the power.
    And get this! Vladimir Putin, whose armies have killed thousands of civilians, suddenly is "concerned" about civilian casualties in the Middle East! I don't like that vibe!
    The United States has less power than we think we do, and Putin is far from finished. He is recruiting sympathetic rogue states to support his efforts at a globalist shift in the balance of power.
    The fight will come our way, and it won't be fun. I really hope that World War III doesn't develop from all this. How is my country going to fix my social security and prevent inflation when the situations in the world require our help??

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 2:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 4:25 AM Phat has replied

      
    sensei
    Member
    Posts: 478
    Joined: 01-24-2023


    (1)
    Message 10 of 284 (913092)
    10-11-2023 4:25 AM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
    10-11-2023 1:27 AM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    Israelian land has been occupied throughout history countless of times. Mainly because of its location, being in the middle of it all.
    Occupiers often found it hard to control jewish people. As Jews continued to hold on to their customs, culture and beliefs, and always kept some hope. So they came up with the idea, trying to crush this hope, by exiling the Jews and scatter them accross other locations. This happened several times.
    Jews were once the chosen people. Now many of them still feel that God would help them get back the lands that were promised to them.
    On the other side, Palestinian children are taught in school that the Jews are evil and capitalism is sinful and bad. Many grow up to become soldiers fighting this war and not stopping unless Israel is completely off the map.
    There does not seem to be an easy way out of this conflict. We are in times of great tribulation.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 1:27 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 11:37 AM sensei has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 11 of 284 (913113)
    10-11-2023 11:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 10 by sensei
    10-11-2023 4:25 AM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    A lot depends on the Israeli response over the next month. BBC and Al-Jazeera are where I get my information, and the BBC says that Israel is now united as a nation (much as the United States was after 9-11) and no nation or body of nations can force them to stop at this point. One soldier stated his feelings that Israel is a people of principles. An article on the BBC, Israelis, united in shock, rally behind war to punish Hamas journaled two contrasting views from the Israeli people. In the first quote,
    BBC:
    A middle-aged couple had managed to meet up with their son, a young man of around 20 who is doing his compulsory military service. The mother handed over a jar of home-made pickles.
    The father said: "We've told him to concentrate on what he has to do, and not to think too hard about friends who've been hurt and killed."
    I respect that father. Again, in reference to 9-11, our duty as a nation was not to focus on a small group of terrorists and equate them with the entire Arab world. On the other hand, in another quote from the Israeli Minister of Defense,
    BBC:
    "We're fighting animals," he says, "and we'll act accordingly." Food, water and power supplies to Gaza are being cut.
    This sums up much of the psychology of war. After 9-11, the United States took the opportunity to ramp up its military and attack Afghanistan. According to Wikipedia,
    Wiki:
    The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with the Islamist jihadist organization al-Qaeda. They hailed from four countries; 15 of them were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one from Lebanon.
    None were from Afghanistan.
    So we "got" Bin Laden. Big deal.
    AZPaul3 has stated that religion is a great evil that must be vanquished from the world before there is true peace.
    Though I mock him for being an antitheist and yet a pagan, the irony of situations such as this is that God religion is involved.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 4:25 AM sensei has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 10-11-2023 12:20 PM Phat has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8522
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 5.6


    Message 12 of 284 (913115)
    10-11-2023 12:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
    10-11-2023 11:37 AM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    AZPaul3 has stated that religion is a great evil that must be vanquished from the world before there is true peace.
    Oh god. What bs. Yes, religion is a great evil. But getting rid of it will not usher in world peace. We're dealing with humans, here. Without the lies of religion there may be less subterfuge in the motivations for war but war there will be.
    Good god, Phatman, I wish you would learn to comprehend what you read.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 11:37 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 2:39 PM AZPaul3 has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 13 of 284 (913119)
    10-11-2023 2:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by AZPaul3
    10-11-2023 12:20 PM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    I'm glad that you at least admitted that humans---not religion was the problem.
    There is a spiritual conflict within humans. You seem to think that booting religion and belief in God out of our heads will absolve that conflict

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 10-11-2023 12:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2023 2:53 PM Phat has replied
     Message 17 by AZPaul3, posted 10-11-2023 5:39 PM Phat has replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9503
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 5.0


    Message 14 of 284 (913120)
    10-11-2023 2:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
    10-11-2023 2:39 PM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    Phat writes:
    You seem to think that booting religion and belief in God out of our heads will absolve that conflict.
    The only people on this forum that believes that are believers in other religions.

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 2:39 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by Phat, posted 10-11-2023 2:59 PM Tangle has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 15 of 284 (913121)
    10-11-2023 2:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 14 by Tangle
    10-11-2023 2:53 PM


    Re: It All Started With the Nakba
    I'm glad you chimed in. You always joke that it is believers who always forecast "doom doom we are all doomed".
    AZ Antitheist is not a believer and yet pessimistically accepts humans at face value.
    What makes you an optimist?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 14 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2023 2:53 PM Tangle has replied

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