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Author | Topic: State Execution in the USA | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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Alabama will kill Keneth Smith today using nitrogen, after previously trying and failing (for four hours) to kill him using lethal injection. They couldn't find a vein. Dear God.
This is the first use of nitrogen to deliberately kill by any state anywhere and is being called torture by objectors. I'm surprising myself by being angry, ashamed and upset even from this distance - a modern democratic country is murdering its own citizens and in such a half-arsed way. At least in those other parts of the world where the death penalty is used - which happen to be countries none of us would choose to live in - you can expect it to be quick and effective. Supported by Christians - wtf???
quote: Just a moment... Edited by Admin, : Fix typo in title: "Stae" => "State" Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Admin Director Posts: 13108 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
I thought there might be an edit to the OP coming, but given that Mr. Smith has been executed I decided to promote this now.
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Percy Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Was going to post this yesterday, but the topic hadn't been promoted yet.
My initial reaction was, "How is asphyxiation, by any means, not cruel, unusual and inhumane?" But looking into it, it is brain's detection of the buildup of carbon dioxide that causes the irresistible urge to breath. We've all experienced this when holding our breath. But there is no carbon dioxide buildup as long as we continue to inhale and exhale, and the brain has no mechanism for detecting a lack of oxygen, so there are no signals that the air you're breathing has insufficient oxygen. Canaries were used in mines to detect bad air because they are more sensitive to the lack of oxygen than humans and would pass out first. So if miners could be rendered unconscious by bad air without being aware anything was amiss, the same should be true for an execution. But that's just me fact checking stuff. I don't believe this means of execution (or any means, for that matter) have been sufficiently researched to prove that they are not inhumane. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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The state of Alabama has executed Kenneth Eugene Smith by means of nitrogen gas. According to the article, Mr. Smith did not just peacefully become unconscious as had been claimed:
The Independent: According to other articles I've read, the burden is on the executionee to prove a method inhumane, not on state authorities to prove it humane. They could sentence someone to burning at the stake and it would happen unless the victim appeals that it is inhumane. This seems completely backward. --Percy
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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The death sentence is cruel punishment on its face, though in this species it is not an unusual one. The reports from Alabama are politically motivated on both sides.
Unfortunately, they do not sedate the prisoner being executed. The state requires he be conscious and aware of his execution. So, I can imagine him strapped onto the gurney in the throes of the deepest darkest existential angst a human mind can suffer. I’d be twitching like a hooked fish. Given the political overtones of the event I can excuse opponents labeling every twitch as extreme pain from breathing nitrogen. I discount the reported interpretations of excessive physical pain as more likely extreme mental anguish. Remember, this was not his first look at the reaper. His previous execution by injection was postponed on the gurney during the needle stick. What most interests me in this whole thing is the method of death. A truly easy and painless suicide? The physiology appears so. A few sleeping pills to put you out then put on the mask and breath easy. Well, as easy as one can considering what you’re contemplating ... until the pills kick in. The Swiss may be onto something. Sarco pod - Wikipedia'Suicide pod' prototype invented as alternative to assisted death Also, unfortunately, I can see this new way to kill becoming the national favorite for executions quite soon. Edited by AZPaul3, . Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Percy Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: The state requires he be conscious and aware of his execution. I couldn't find this requirement at Ala. Code § 15-18-82 or Ala. Code § 15-18-82.1, but maybe it's in another part of the code? Much of these parts of the code are concerned with constitutionality. Or maybe it's a federal requirement? If the executionee being conscious and aware is the law then that seems, in and of itself, cruel. In the Alabama case, because the prisoner is unconscious at the moment of death, the moment of actual execution, which with nitrogen hypoxia apparently occurs about 20 minutes after the air supply is changed to nitrogen, I think this might not fulfill a requirement of consciousness and awareness. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
I've been a bit quiet waiting to see what people might say. To be frank I'm surprised that the focus has been entirely on the method and not on whether you guys should really be murdering your own citizens with malice and forethought in any way at all.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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The problem involves the fact that we Americans kill people legally and as many of us stand up and scream about it there aren’t enough to change the laws. Why? I smell religion.
As for the method ... very interesting. I happen to be a big believer in a person's right to off themselves. This nitrogen method looks ... imaginable.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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GDR Member Posts: 6223 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: The problem involves the fact that we Americans kill people legally and as many of us stand up and scream about it there aren’t enough to change the laws. Why? I smell religion. The US government and state governments are secular. However, as often is the case around here Christianity becomes the scapegoat. I'm a Christian and am absolutely opposed to the death penalty. I agree that there are those who don't deserve to live, but the death penalty is bad for society, and bad for the executioners.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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The US government and state governments are secular. However, as often is the case around here Christianity becomes the scapegoat. The government is secular. The voters are not. Just a moment... (Strange journal title. No wait. This is the Death Penalty Information Center reporting on a Pew Research Center survey from April 2021)
quote: I'd say this represents a major share of the voting population. As usual religion, specifically christianity, leads the death cult. Edited by AZPaul3, : source. Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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ICANT Member (Idle past 288 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Paul,
AZPaul3 writes: I'd say this represents a major share of the voting population. As usual religion, specifically christianity, leads the death cult. If the life of a person is removed by a person why should that person not need to pay for that life with their own? Evolution would not support such a view. If you believe it would just go out in the woods with a gun and one bullet and kill a bear's cub and see what happens. That bear will maul you to pieces until your life is gone. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4069 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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quote: That depends on what your goals for society are, and how specifically you value human life. Whether you care about recidivism, or redemption, or forgiveness. Whether you care about giving the State the power to kill its citizens. Whether you care about the mental and emotional health of the people you ask to perform the executions. How certain you are that the convicted person really did the thing they are accused of, bearing in mind that there are many many cases we know of where a person was executed and later proven to be innocent. There are lots of considerations, beyond even those I've mentioned.
quote: Evolution is not a set of moral principles, ICANT. It's a scientific theory that explains the diversity of life. There are no "ten commandments of evolution." This is like saying "The theory of gravity does not support the view that Mustangs are better muscle cars than Challengers." It's just pure non-sequitur.“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Nihil supernum
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Phat Member Posts: 18656 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
That could be because of several reasons.
Yes I know Im heartless. jesus should be ashamed of me, according to the bleeding hearts. Lets keep each and every human alive...forever if possible. Damn the cost,
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Phat Member Posts: 18656 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4
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Rahvin writes: Why are we suddenly worried about the power to kill when so many deadly wars are part of our daily news? In the rare cases where the death penelty is suggested, its not a big deal to collectively snuff out a life. The issue boils down to the humaneness and the method. Not the stupid ethics of a society ill equipped to judge itself.
That depends on what your goals for society are, and how specifically you value human life. Whether you care about recidivism, or redemption, or forgiveness. Whether you care about giving the State the power to kill its citizens.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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If the life of a person is removed by a person why should that person not need to pay for that life with their own? If your catechism were true then you just told your master you don't believe him and will not follow in his wake.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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