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Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 22934
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 1 of 100 (920649)
11-06-2024 6:37 AM


Predictions for a Trump America
Donald Trump has won the 2024 presidential election. Predictions that come to mind at the moment:
  1. He will have the biggest inaugural crowd in American history. This time he will insure that it is literally true.
  2. He will abandon Ukraine and cozy up to Russia.
  3. He won't leave NATO, but he will continue to present difficult problems for the alliance.
  4. He will double down on our support of Israel.
  5. He will become more aggressive against Iran.
  6. Jack Smith will be fired. The federal cases against Trump for stealing documents and for attempting to steal the 2020 election will end.
  7. The situation for illegal immigrants will become more dire, both for those trying to enter the country and those already in the country. Businesses that "employ" (exploit) immigrants, whether legal or illegal, will have a harder time finding workers, especially agriculture.
  8. He will continue his campaign against the Affordable Care Act.
  9. He will use the Justice Department, and the IRS, to persecute political enemies and anyone he believes has slighted him.
  10. His vision of America will grow darker and darker.
Trump may very well win both the electoral college and the popular vote. If he wins the popular vote he would be only the second Republican presidential candidate to achieve this in the last 36 years.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 11-06-2024 6:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 9:17 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 11-06-2024 11:48 AM Percy has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 2 of 100 (920650)
11-06-2024 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-06-2024 6:37 AM


An Uncertain Future
I remember an old post you made where you asked rhetorically, "Is this who we really are?" I can't believe he got in, but I am not looking forward to the global future.
Of course most conservative church folk voted for him, but what carried him was the Latino vote, as well as the uneducated white vote.(I suppose many elitists would put me in this category! )
My only prediction is a gloomy one. I believe that both the United States and Israel will be judged for their actions in the next four years. (as well as the past two).
For those who don't believe in God as the judge, substitute "the rest of the world".
I'm not as scared of Trump as many of you are, but I certainly don't see him as "the smart guy that he portrays himself as. We all are gonna have to own this one.
Yes Percy, evidently this *is* who we are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 6:37 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22934
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 3 of 100 (920652)
11-06-2024 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-06-2024 6:37 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Another prediction:
  1. If given the opportunity, he will appoint more ultra-conservative Supreme Court justices.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 6:37 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10296
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 4 of 100 (920653)
11-06-2024 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-06-2024 6:37 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Percy writes:
The situation for illegal immigrants will become more dire, both for those trying to enter the country and those already in the country. Businesses that "employ" (exploit) immigrants, whether legal or illegal, will have a harder time finding workers, especially agriculture.
Living in a rural state, I find this one to be the most intriguing. I will be interested to see what happens when Trump's rhetoric runs into the real world. How will his rural base react to not having enough workers come harvest time, or having to pay much higher wages.
I will also be curious to see what happens when Trump learns who actually pays tariffs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 6:37 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-06-2024 12:13 PM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 5 of 100 (920654)
11-06-2024 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
11-06-2024 9:17 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
I am curious about who will fill Trump's cabinet. One name that I read about was Elbridge Colby.
I don't know that much about any of these people, but I certainly don't want to see RFK Jr. in charge of health since I heard that he was once an anti-vaxxer.
I'm sure that Theodoric thinks that I have supported Trump all along, largely due to my references to Colonel Douglas MacGregor, but I am certainly not a warmonger. I want peace and cooperation.
The reconciliation that Trump seemed to propose regarding a divided America is directed at our global adversaries in my opinion. Trump wants to do business and make some money off of the world. Whether this is the best path to peace is up for debate. I learned about Tariffs from you guys and am not in favor of that approach to geopolitical diplomacy and strategy. Russia is not our friend. They are already at economic war with us as I have pointed out before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 9:17 AM Percy has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 6 of 100 (920656)
11-06-2024 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taq
11-06-2024 11:48 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
I will also be curious to see what happens when Trump learns who actually pays tariffs.
I learned about it from you. Surely he has to know. What will end up happening is that the middle class will continue to be squeezed by higher prices as the dollar continues its slow decline. I will point out that de-dollarization is a bi-partisan issue.
That reminds me...I need to check the markets.
Damn! Gold and silver are both now going down! The Dow jumped a thousand points. Its all inflated dollars anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 11-06-2024 11:48 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 11-06-2024 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10296
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.1


(2)
Message 7 of 100 (920657)
11-06-2024 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
11-06-2024 12:13 PM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Phat writes:
I learned about it from you. Surely he has to know.
Assuming Trump does know: This opens a Pandora's box of different conclusions. Did he lie about how tariffs work because he never thought he would actually win? Does he plan on continuing the lie and put tariffs in place? Did he never have any intention of putting tariffs on all imports, but just said it to win votes?
Assuming Trump doesn't know: Whiskey tango foxtrot.
Added in edit:
Trump claimed we could replace income tax with tariffs. Just to put some numbers on this:
2023 revenue from income tax = 2.18 T
2023 imported goods = 3.83 T
average tariff needed = 57%

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-06-2024 12:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Zucadragon, posted 11-07-2024 5:43 AM Taq has replied

  
Zucadragon
Member
Posts: 140
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006


Message 8 of 100 (920663)
11-07-2024 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taq
11-06-2024 12:18 PM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Right right, another measure then that disproportionally favors the rich, they have a higher tax rate on their income, so they'll gain the most from that.
The poorest will get only a small benefit from this.
Yet at the same time, the increase in goods cost from such Tariffs would be 50%+, meaning the cost of living goes up a lot for the poor in comparison to the richest, who probably won't even notice the difference, because they're rich.
Great fun, did I get this right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 11-06-2024 12:18 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 11-07-2024 7:19 AM Zucadragon has not replied
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 11-12-2024 1:09 PM Zucadragon has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22934
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 9 of 100 (920664)
11-07-2024 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Zucadragon
11-07-2024 5:43 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Zucadragon writes in Message 8:
Great fun, did I get this right?
Yep. Trump's tariff proposal would shift more of the tax burden from the rich to the poor.
I don't think it's possible to create a progressive tax structure in a representative democracy where the rich can lobby representatives for special treatment in return for donations, gifts, etc., without limit. Combined with the ability of politicians to convince millions of people of lies I think we've reached the point where we only resemble a representative democracy in that on a designated day each year we make marks on pieces of paper.
--Percy

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 Message 8 by Zucadragon, posted 11-07-2024 5:43 AM Zucadragon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 10 of 100 (920665)
11-07-2024 9:38 AM


The next waypoint is Trump's sentencing hearing.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 11 of 100 (920669)
11-07-2024 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tangle
11-07-2024 9:38 AM


The Emperor Has Clothes
My understanding is that Trump v. United States (2024) confers immunity to the presidency against any such investigations, charges or Federal Court actions.
Trump v. United States | 603 U.S. ___ (2024) | Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center
Already the federal prosecutors are closing up shop from Jack Smith to the Florida documents cases.
Special counsel Jack Smith expected to wind down Trump prosecutions: Sources - ABC News
What are left are the state cases and the Hush Money case. Even these may soon fall under the SCOTUS Immunity ruling.
Oct. 15, 2024
Trump, in a filing, again asks the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals to transfer his New York criminal hush money case to federal court in an effort to stall his Nov. 26 sentencing or throw out his conviction altogether.
Timeline: Manhattan DA's Stormy Daniels hush money case against Donald Trump - ABC News
Right now, I don't think any jurisdiction can touch him.
No. He is not going to jail.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tangle, posted 11-07-2024 9:38 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22934
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 12 of 100 (920670)
11-07-2024 1:20 PM


At this point I'm only capable of watching in horror, and I can't even do that because I can't bring myself to look at the news. It won't really begin to get bad until January 20th - maybe I'll have developed more intestinal fortitude by then.
I wonder if those who voted for Trump will ever realize what they have done, or will they not even realize their democracy is gone?
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 11-07-2024 4:50 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 14 by dwise1, posted 11-07-2024 7:35 PM Percy has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 13 of 100 (920671)
11-07-2024 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Percy
11-07-2024 1:20 PM


An Uncertain Future
Percy writes:
I wonder if those who voted for Trump will ever realize what they have done, or will they not even realize their democracy is gone?
I have been at our union contract negotiations and have watched in disbelief as the rulings begin to change before our eyes. The merger, once dead in the water, may assume a new life after January 20th. The pension will take a hit. Healthcare may change. Even Social Security may now be in jeopardy. It is not a good time to grow old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 11-07-2024 1:20 PM Percy has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6076
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 14 of 100 (920675)
11-07-2024 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Percy
11-07-2024 1:20 PM


I wonder if those who voted for Trump will ever realize what they have done, or will they not even realize their democracy is gone?
At least we know that they will not make that same mistake again. Remember that Trump had promised his followers that they will never have to vote again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 11-07-2024 1:20 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22934
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 15 of 100 (920676)
11-07-2024 7:50 PM


Trump Has a Mandate
Nevada and Arizona have not been called yet in this map, but whether they've been called officially or not they are definitely going for Trump, so this was an overwhelming electoral victory for Trump, 312-226:
The popular vote wasn't close either (not a final tally): 72,957,805 to 68,415,122 (50.8% to 47.7%)
Trump has a mandate.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 11-08-2024 12:19 AM Percy has replied

  
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