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Author Topic:   The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness
CK
Member (Idle past 2412 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 1 of 231 (327047)
06-28-2006 3:16 AM


This is a thread for the off-topic debate in The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement about the construction and seaworthness of the ark.

What was the ark constructed of?

Given it's dimensions would it have been seaworthy?

How would such a vessel release the signiificant waste of the animals it contained?


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Message 2 of 231 (327068)
06-28-2006 7:37 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1177 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 3 of 231 (327109)
06-28-2006 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
06-28-2006 3:16 AM


The Ark in Frostburg Maryland
There is a guy in Western Maryland supposedly constructing an ark to the original dimensions. He is cheating, though, it has a steel superstructure and a concrete foundation - he doesn't intend to ever try to float it.

http://www.godsark.org/html/the_construction.html

Anyway, the dimensions he is using are 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high.

So far he has the footings poured and about a third of the steel superstructure erected, according to his website. He has been at it since 1976, maybe he thinks he is going to live as long as Noah. According to his website several "miracles" have already occured. Here are the ones listed on the website - many more are claimed.

Ark Website writes:

Steel reinforcement rod was needed and God spoke to a man to donate it. Anchor bolts were needed and they were donated. Cement forms were needed and a man visited the site who “happened” to be a cement form salesman. Wages were needed to begin construction, and God instructed a man to give a large donation just before it was time to begin work that year.


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iano
Member (Idle past 225 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 4 of 231 (327117)
06-28-2006 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
06-28-2006 3:16 AM


How would such a vessel release the signiificant waste of the animals it contained?

Think of this thing 'bobbing' up and down on the water. Then imagine the sheer amount of power available to drive machinery. The skill and intelligence it would take to build such a thing renders such sub-technology childs play.

I'm toying with the idea of a simple self-siphoning pump based on the up and down movement of the ark. But there are any other number of ways to achieve the same thing. Once one has 'limitless' power to drive things.


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jar
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Posts: 31467
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 5 of 231 (327131)
06-28-2006 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
06-28-2006 3:16 AM


It was made of Gopherwood. Unfortunately no one knows what Gopherwood is.

There is not much that one can say about whether or not it would be sea worthy since little except its demensions are given and they are given in unknown units that can have several actual lengths.

The best way to approach it would be from a nautical perspective, and based on that it is most unlikely. A good comparison would be to look at some of the great wooden ships of all time. For example the USS Constelation was about 160 feet long and had a beam of over 40 feet. The very biggest of the woden vessels were the Barques, Brigs and Brigantines, and they only reached a maximum length of about 250'.

A wooden vessel of the size speculated for the Ark might have been possible, and might have been sea worthy, if Noah had the technology and body of knowledge of the ship builders of the late 1800s.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 4119 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 6 of 231 (327137)
06-28-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
06-28-2006 3:16 AM


Does it matter?
CK, I don't think it even matters...

Even a Nimitz class Aircraft carrier wouldn't be large enough to carry 2 of every animal in the world and the food/water needed for them.

I guess people could argue that the ark is better constructed and larger than a nimitz class... but those people would be deluded morons.


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CK
Member (Idle past 2412 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 7 of 231 (327144)
06-28-2006 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-28-2006 11:09 AM


Re: Does it matter?
It doesn't matter to an extent - I just wanted a place to get rid of all the OT material off my original thread!

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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3348 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 8 of 231 (327178)
06-28-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
06-28-2006 10:17 AM


If you plan on considering an idea of self-siphoning pumps you may want to look into some physics, specifically work energy theorem and wave motion (longitudal) and probably methods for harnessing those waves and don't forget to look up engines as well. Those are probably some of the tools you may need to bring your thoughts into action.

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iano
Member (Idle past 225 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 9 of 231 (327184)
06-28-2006 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 12:32 PM


Yeah maybe a bit too complex. The old reciprocating pump will have to suffice using plain up and down action of the ark. Tried and trusted and easy to manufacture

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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3348 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 10 of 231 (327186)
06-28-2006 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by iano
06-28-2006 12:41 PM


how would you apply a recipoircating pump to your boat?

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Faith
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Posts: 33263
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 11 of 231 (327189)
06-28-2006 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-28-2006 11:09 AM


Re: Does it matter?
Even a Nimitz class Aircraft carrier wouldn't be large enough to carry 2 of every animal in the world and the food/water needed for them.

And of course you know exactly how large it would have to be, how many animals it carried and how much food and water were needed. Noah wasn't called to take 2 of "every animal in the world." What is now called a species is not the same thing as a Kind. Many fewer were taken than you are likely to imagine for that reason.

I guess people could argue that the ark is better constructed and larger than a nimitz class... but those people would be deluded morons.

Well, God did give Noah the instructions.

Signed,
Deluded Moron.

Thought I'd bring over some info I posted on the other thread about construction projects:

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=12&t=424&m=81#81 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=12&t=424&m=81#81">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=12&t=424&m=81#81


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iano
Member (Idle past 225 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 12 of 231 (327191)
06-28-2006 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 12:48 PM


You don't mean: explain how to convert the up and down action of the ark relative to the surface of the water into a pump do you?

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 4119 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 13 of 231 (327194)
06-28-2006 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
06-28-2006 12:57 PM


Re: Does it matter?
What is now called a species is not the same thing as a Kind.

Define a kind.... oh wait you can't... because it's bullshit. You know this too, you've been called on it a million times before.

Well, God did give Noah the instructions.

I'm glad you think it's possible to build a ship more advanced than a nimitz class out of wood with primitive tools.

Signed,
Deluded Moron.

Wow, you actually got one thing right for once


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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3348 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 14 of 231 (327197)
06-28-2006 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by iano
06-28-2006 1:07 PM


Surely I am asking you to explain to me, how to convert the up down action of the ark relative to the surface of the water into a pump.

And explain to me how the ark moves at all relative to the surface of the water when simple harmonic motion of a particle on a longitudal wave shows that relative to the wave the particle stays in the same place. <http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/viewtopic.php?t=39>. That is an example of what you are considering. What you will notice if you keep dampened and forced oscillation at 0 (as it would be on the ark) is that the mass relative to the spring does not move. The mass move relative to us but not to the spring.

This can be applied to the ark as well. The ark if we were looking at it would be moving up and down on the ocean (if we call the ocean our spring), but realtive to the ocean it is not moving up and down. So to calrify I am asking how do you convert a non-existing up and down motion of the ark relative to the ocean into energy?


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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3348 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 15 of 231 (327199)
06-28-2006 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
06-28-2006 12:57 PM


Re: Does it matter?
Well we do know how large Noah's ark is because that is as stated as in the bible 450' X 75' X 45'/

However, we do not know how large a ship would have to be that would carry every type of animal/plant immaginable and their food/water source for a year.

Its akin to me saying i can fit every marble into the world into one of my standard kitchen garbage bags. So i take every marble in the world i know about and fit them into my garbage bag. To me its every marble in the world because i can't find anymore but to you well..you probably have a couple dozen i can fit into the bag.


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