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Author Topic:   If being Christian is so great, why is the music so bad?
nator
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 99 (7042)
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


I am interested in what Christians have to say about this.

Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?


Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3749
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2 of 99 (7052)
03-16-2002 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


First of all, I suspect that contemporary Christian radio features few, if any African-American artists.

It's amazing that music supposedly having to do with the soul, can be so soul-less.

------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 03-16-2002 6:18 PM nator has responded

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nator
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 99 (7058)
03-16-2002 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Minnemooseus
03-16-2002 7:13 PM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
First of all, I suspect that contemporary Christian radio features few, if any African-American artists.

It's amazing that music supposedly having to do with the soul, can be so soul-less.


Right.

I was talking about white churches.


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KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 6111 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 4 of 99 (7065)
03-16-2002 8:12 PM


okay...

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


    
joz
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 99 (7086)
03-17-2002 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
I am interested in what Christians have to say about this.

Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?


Because Global Evilutionist Conspiracy TM has been luring away anyone with the slightest bit of talent with sex and drugs for the past 90 years....


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 Message 1 by nator, posted 03-16-2002 6:18 PM nator has not yet responded

  
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5805 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 6 of 99 (7093)
03-17-2002 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
I am interested in what Christians have to say about this.

Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?


Because most music is bland. Christian music is no different from any other. Perhaps the question you should be asking is why does so little secular music reach the heights of the Saint Matthew Passsion, or Mozart's Requiem, or Haydn's Creation, or Handel's Messiah, or a Palestrina Mass, or a Gaelic Psalm, or a spiritual, or the heartbreaking tenderness of a carol, or (appropriate at this time of year) the Lent prose?


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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 99 (7095)
03-17-2002 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mister Pamboli
03-17-2002 4:36 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
I am interested in what Christians have to say about this.

Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?


Because most music is bland.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that you and I listen to the same music.

[QUOTE]Christian music is no different from any other. Perhaps the question you should be asking is why does so little secular music reach the heights of the Saint Matthew Passsion, or Mozart's Requiem, or Haydn's Creation, or Handel's Messiah, or a Palestrina Mass, or a Gaelic Psalm, or a spiritual, or the heartbreaking tenderness of a carol, or (appropriate at this time of year) the Lent prose?[/B]


Except for the spirituals, all of the music you mention was created some time ago. Some of it, a very very long time ago. This is not what I am talking about. I am talking about contemporary Christian music, of any stripe, minus that to be found in the black churches.

I suppose that I am saying that very little great art has come out of contentedness. Art comes from pain and struggle and ecstacy and passion and huge emotions.

If Christians are so filled with joy, then why don't their songs sound like "Walkin' on Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves?


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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5805 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 8 of 99 (7126)
03-17-2002 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by nator
03-17-2002 8:00 AM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
Except for the spirituals, all of the music you mention was created some time ago. Some of it, a very very long time ago. This is not what I am talking about. I am talking about contemporary Christian music, of any stripe, minus that to be found in the black churches.

O, I see. Sorry.

There is some great Christian music being written today - Taverner, Gorecki, MacMillan - but I suspect you mean the "popular" style? I have to agree then - most if it is drivel.


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nator
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 9 of 99 (7202)
03-18-2002 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Mister Pamboli
03-17-2002 4:14 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
Except for the spirituals, all of the music you mention was created some time ago. Some of it, a very very long time ago. This is not what I am talking about. I am talking about contemporary Christian music, of any stripe, minus that to be found in the black churches.

quote:
O, I see. Sorry.

It's OK, I wasn't exactly clear.

[QUOTE]There is some great Christian music being written today - Taverner, Gorecki, MacMillan - but I suspect you mean the "popular" style? I have to agree then - most if it is drivel.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, I mean popular music. I mean, is Amy Grant all the better it gets? Why is that?


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leekim
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 99 (7407)
03-20-2002 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by nator
03-17-2002 8:00 AM


I suppose that I am saying that very little great art has come out of contentedness. Art comes from pain and struggle and ecstacy and passion and huge emotions.
If Christians are so filled with joy, then why don't their songs sound like "Walkin' on Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves?

---Art should also be delivered with some semblance of "talent" as well. All humans experience "pain and struggle and ecstacy and passion and huge emotions" (as you put it), regardless of their religious inclinations or lack thereof (yes, even Christian Rock bands have emotions, even though they arguably don't convey them very well). Far too many "artists" today simply create "art" for pure shock value. Great American / Christian artists such as Rockwell or, more currently, Kinkade, produce(d) beautiful pieces which instill emotion. The Christian religion is full of "pain, struggle, ecstacy, passion and emotion", particularly during this time of Lent whereby we re-visit Christ's final days. Song is only one small form of artistic expression. The beauty of art is that it truly is in the eye of the beholder and although Christian music isn't my listening preference, there must be a considerable amount of people who enjoy it and consider it "musical art" because many "Christian Groups" sell their music fairly well.


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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5805 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 11 of 99 (7409)
03-20-2002 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by leekim
03-20-2002 11:50 AM


quote:
Originally posted by leekim:
Art should also be delivered with some semblance of "talent" as well. ... Far too many "artists" today simply create "art" for pure shock value. Great American / Christian artists such as Rockwell or, more currently, Kinkade, produce(d) beautiful pieces which instill emotion.

Not Thomas Kinkade, soi disant "Painter of Light" and mass marketer of "art-based products" as he calls them? I think it is profoundly sad that the religion that inspired Bach and Grunewald should be reduced to Christian rock music and Thomas Kinkade.

It seems as if it is not the world which has lost faith in Christ, but Christianity which has lost faith in its own meaning and emotional power.


This message is a reply to:
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leekim
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 99 (7410)
03-20-2002 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Mister Pamboli
03-20-2002 12:12 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by leekim:
Art should also be delivered with some semblance of "talent" as well. ... Far too many "artists" today simply create "art" for pure shock value. Great American / Christian artists such as Rockwell or, more currently, Kinkade, produce(d) beautiful pieces which instill emotion.

Not Thomas Kinkade, soi disant "Painter of Light" and mass marketer of "art-based products" as he calls them? I think it is profoundly sad that the religion that inspired Bach and Grunewald should be reduced to Christian rock music and Thomas Kinkade.
It seems as if it is not the world which has lost faith in Christ, but Christianity which has lost faith in its own meaning and emotional power.
---Sure, Kinkade is certainly not Michalengelo, but he possess talent and some of his works (although mass marketed) are very well done. There are also many, many musical artists that are of the Christian faith that do not dub themselves as a "Christian Artist / Musician" (even though their faith "inspires" them musically). Certainly Bach didn't market himself as the "Christian pianist savant", rather he was simply one of the greatest pianists / composers of all time. I would certainly agree with your assertion that Christianity, particularly Catholicism, has "lost faith in its own meaning and emotional power". That is why the Church has, in my opinion, made poor decisions in trying to modernize the faith (ie Vatican II, etc) to seemingly "keep up with the times" rather than remain steadfast in their positions. A position of inconsistency is one of weakness. Oh well, I digress, this issue is best debated on a different site...


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nator
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 99 (7470)
03-21-2002 7:56 AM


I think it should also be mentioned that a great many of the famous "classical" composers who wrote requiems and passions and other religious works were commissioned to do so by rich patrons. Many great European composers (and painters, for that matter) dealt with religious themes because that's where the money was.
Replies to this message:
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 14 of 99 (7593)
03-22-2002 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by nator
03-21-2002 7:56 AM


True, and now the money is with the devil's camp (sex songs, drug beats, etc.).
This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3749
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 15 of 99 (7597)
03-22-2002 12:47 AM


All this has just reminded me of the Residents album "Wormwood", where they explore the "darker side" of the Bible. I need to track it down for another listen.

http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=Adlkmikmkbb29

Moose

------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe


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