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Author Topic:   Is Hovind going to hell?
joz
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 53 (3671)
02-07-2002 11:31 AM


quote:
THE NINTH COMMANDMENT
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Ex. 20, 16.
To accuse a man by bearing false witness against him, either in the court of law officially. or in public in order to destroy his dignity, is a sin not only before God, but even before man, according to the ordinary standards of life. This act is not merely a lie; it is spiteful joy at the expense of
an innocent person. To bear false witness, against one's neighbor is a vice which includes lying and defamation, as well as mockery, calumny and profanity.
It is an offense with the armour of manyfold weapons of destruction. The writer of the Epistle of James 1, 3-5, describes in a vivid manner the use of human abilities against one's neighbor and society. Such behavior is the opposite of the truth by which the Church of Christ is sustained and nourished by Almighty God.. The commandment not only admonishes us to avoid bearing false witness or even neutrality, but also encourages us to promote the fruits of the Truth as it is described by our Savior in the Sermon on the Mount.

I bring your attention to the section which reads...
"To bear false witness, against one's neighbor is a vice which includes lying...."
Given that Hovind has had the falacy of his arguments demonstrated time and time again, and given that he still uses them surely he is either:
a)Lying when he uses the arguments that he knows to be erronous...
Or:
b)Lying when he calls himself an expert in the field (given that he can`t understand that he is wrong he hardly deserves the accolade "expert")....
If so someone tell him to stop, on the off chance that creationists are right I don`t want to spend eternity in hell listening to his drivell......

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 12:03 PM joz has not replied
 Message 3 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 1:20 PM joz has replied
 Message 21 by mark24, posted 02-08-2002 10:35 AM joz has replied
 Message 25 by KingPenguin, posted 02-09-2002 10:40 PM joz has not replied
 Message 50 by Floris O, posted 03-12-2002 6:50 AM joz has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 2 of 53 (3675)
02-07-2002 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joz
02-07-2002 11:31 AM


Should it read
"Bearing false witness... except when your on medication", in which case he's a free man.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 11:31 AM joz has not replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 53 (3681)
02-07-2002 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joz
02-07-2002 11:31 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
I bring your attention to the section which reads...
"To bear false witness, against one's neighbor is a vice which includes lying...."

If you think he's lying about something then call him up and tell him.
850-479-3466 (8-4 Mon-Fri CST)
Whether or not you go to hell is based upon whether or not you accept Jesus anyways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 11:31 AM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 1:33 PM redstang281 has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 53 (3685)
02-07-2002 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by redstang281
02-07-2002 1:20 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
1)If you think he's lying about something then call him up and tell him.
850-479-3466 (8-4 Mon-Fri CST)
2)Whether or not you go to hell is based upon whether or not you accept Jesus anyways.

1)If I thought he had the integrity to admit that he was wrong I would. He doesn`t and as such it would be a waste of my time and dollars.
2)How convenient then tell me what if any is the relevance of the ten comandments if everyone can do as they like and play the I believe so i get into heaven card?
Why bother with a system of moral standards if you can go to heaven after breaking them providing you believe....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 1:20 PM redstang281 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 2:43 PM joz has replied
 Message 53 by Brad McFall, posted 05-17-2002 3:01 PM joz has not replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 53 (3692)
02-07-2002 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by joz
02-07-2002 1:33 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
1)If I thought he had the integrity to admit that he was wrong I would. He doesn`t and as such it would be a waste of my time and dollars.

Oh, but getting on the internet and complaining about it is a good way to spend your time?
[b] [QUOTE] 2)How convenient then tell me what if any is the relevance of the ten comandments if everyone can do as they like and play the I believe so i get into heaven card?
Why bother with a system of moral standards if you can go to heaven after breaking them providing you believe....[/b][/QUOTE]
You don't think God would give us a system of moral standards to help us live a good life while on earth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 1:33 PM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 3:37 PM redstang281 has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 53 (3703)
02-07-2002 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by redstang281
02-07-2002 2:43 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
You don't think God would give us a system of moral standards to help us live a good life while on earth?
By your own logic God doesn`t give a fig if we follow them provided we believe in him, if he did then regardless of beliefs people who broke the rules would go to hell.....
If the only criteria for entry to heaven is belief in God then he obviously doesn`t care if we live a good life or not....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 2:43 PM redstang281 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 3:53 PM joz has not replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 53 (3707)
02-07-2002 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by joz
02-07-2002 3:37 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
By your own logic God doesn’t give a fig if we follow them provided we believe in him, if he did then regardless of beliefs people who broke the rules would go to hell.....

Oh he defiantly cares if we follow them. Otherwise they would be called "10 recommendations" not "10 commandments"
Accepting Jesus determines ultimately whether or not you go to heaven or hell.
Once you accept Jesus you become in God's family. Any sin you do after that point is a family issue. The less sins you commit the greater the reward in heaven.
[b] [QUOTE] If the only criteria for entry to heaven is belief in God then he obviously doesn’t care if we live a good life or not....[/b][/QUOTE]
Yeah, he cares. He wants us to live a good life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 3:37 PM joz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 4:04 PM redstang281 has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 8 of 53 (3710)
02-07-2002 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by redstang281
02-07-2002 3:53 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:

Oh he defiantly cares if we follow them. Otherwise they would be called "10 recommendations" not "10 commandments"
Accepting Jesus determines ultimately whether or not you go to heaven or hell.
Once you accept Jesus you become in God's family. Any sin you do after that point is a family issue. The less sins you commit the greater the reward in heaven.

You do realise you just contradicted yourself?
The 10 commandments may as well be called the 10 recommendations if "Accepting Jesus determines ultimately whether or not you go to heaven or hell."
Also, if I accept Jesus, but make a go of commiting sins as much as possible, at what point do I get NO reward in heaven, but still go there.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 3:53 PM redstang281 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 4:56 PM mark24 has replied
 Message 14 by gene90, posted 02-07-2002 7:43 PM mark24 has not replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 53 (3722)
02-07-2002 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mark24
02-07-2002 4:04 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
You do realise you just contradicted yourself?
The 10 commandments may as well be called the 10 recommendations if "Accepting Jesus determines ultimately whether or not you go to heaven or hell."

No sir, I added the important word "otherwise" in there. Reread my post please.
[b] [QUOTE] Also, if I accept Jesus, but make a go of commiting sins as much as possible, at what point do I get NO reward in heaven, but still go there.
[/b][/QUOTE]
I'd have to say you didn't really accept Jesus it you are determined to purposely commit every sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 4:04 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 4:57 PM redstang281 has not replied
 Message 11 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 5:09 PM redstang281 has replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 53 (3723)
02-07-2002 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by redstang281
02-07-2002 4:56 PM


we dont stick to topic much around here do we?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 4:56 PM redstang281 has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 11 of 53 (3725)
02-07-2002 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by redstang281
02-07-2002 4:56 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
I'd have to say you didn't really accept Jesus it you are determined to purposely commit every sin.

That's not my interpretation, I can sin, & go to heaven.
quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:

Originally posted by joz:
By your own logic God doesn’t give a fig if we follow them provided we believe in him, if he did then regardless of beliefs people who broke the rules would go to hell.....
Red said:
Oh he defiantly cares if we follow them. Otherwise they would be called "10 recommendations" not "10 commandments"
Accepting Jesus determines ultimately whether or not you go to heaven or hell."

So are the commandments just that, or recommendations, because they have no relevance as to whether I go to heaven. They're not very "commanding" if I go to heaven anyway.
All I have to do is sin as much as I like, & accept Jesus. Whether you think I have accepted Jesus or not is subjective on your part. I may well accept him right at the end in the last breath of life I have. Get out of jail free.
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by redstang281, posted 02-07-2002 4:56 PM redstang281 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 5:23 PM mark24 has replied
 Message 30 by redstang281, posted 02-11-2002 9:12 AM mark24 has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 53 (3731)
02-07-2002 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by mark24
02-07-2002 5:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
I may well accept him right at the end in the last breath of life I have. Get out of jail free.
Mark! I thought you had more class than Pascal!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 5:09 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mark24, posted 02-07-2002 5:25 PM joz has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 13 of 53 (3732)
02-07-2002 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by joz
02-07-2002 5:23 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Mark! I thought you had more class than Pascal!
LOL hypothetically speaking....
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 5:23 PM joz has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 14 of 53 (3746)
02-07-2002 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mark24
02-07-2002 4:04 PM


[QUOTE][b]Also, if I accept Jesus, but make a go of commiting sins as much as possible, at what point do I get NO reward in heaven, but still go there.[/QUOTE]
[/b]
Asking repentance, and having faith in that repentance, are necessary but you also have to stop sinning. If Hovind continues his lies until he dies he will probably go to Hell no matter how strongly he believes in God or accepts Jesus. He might get treated better than a constant liar who is an atheist, but I doubt it.
[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-07-2002]

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 53 (3766)
02-07-2002 10:08 PM


The ten commadments were created BEFORE Jesus Christ was sent to the Earth. The REASON Jesus was sent is because man was not responsible enough to even follow the simple commandments.

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by joz, posted 02-07-2002 10:13 PM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 35 by redstang281, posted 02-11-2002 9:25 AM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
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