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Author Topic:   another bit of Fred WIlliams hyperbole for the Cause
derwood
Member (Idle past 1897 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 1 of 4 (24216)
11-25-2002 10:29 AM


Thanks to Buddika:
On his anti-evolution web site, The Evolution Fairytale , Fred
Williams has "A synopsis of Bible Evidences" page
404 Not Found
In this, he has a section called "Circumcision and blood-clotting"
where he makes this claim:
"For centuries scholars must have been perplexed by God's law of
circumcision which required the procedure to be performed on the 8th
day after birth (Gen 17:12, Gen 21:14, Lev 12:3, Luke 2:21). Medical
researchers recently discovered that the two main blood clotting
factors, Vitamin K and Prothrombim (sic), reach their highest level in
life, about 110% of normal, on the 8th day after birth. These blood
clotting agents facilitate rapid healing and greatly reduce the chance
of infection. You can verify with any Obstetrician that the 8th day of
life is the ideal time for a circumcision, and that any circumcision
done earlier requires an injection of Vitamin K supplement."
This claim (like many of Williams' claims) is apparently lifted
without attribution from somewhere on the 'Net because you can find
this same thing all over with a simple Google search. There was
nowhere that was I able to find any sort of reference as to where this
information originated.
Ignoring the fact that Williams cannot spell "prothrombin", it seems
to me that he doesn't grasp what it is he is talking about.
I'm not a doctor (I don't even play one on TV!) but from reading at:
Request Rejected
it looks to me (very simply put) like prothrombin allows for thrombin
which converts fibrinogen to fibrin, enabling blood clotting, and
vitamin K is not a clotting factor itself, but is required for the
formation of prothrombin and other factors. It is deficient in
newborns, which is why they are routinely given a vitamin K shot.
Vitamin K breaks down very quickly in the body, so continuous
production is necessary.
The above government URL reveals that "In the newborn the plasma
concentrations of these factors are normally 30-60% of those of
adults. They gradually reach adult values by six weeks of age.
Administration of vitamin K immediately after birth prevents a further
drop in these factors".
So quite contrary to what would appear to be another Williams blatant
lie (that the eighth day is best for circumcision because a clotting
factor rockets to 110% of normal), the truth is just the opposite! A
vitamin K shot is required at birth to prevent these factors from
falling, and the factors are apparently substandard for the first six
weeks of life!
Am I right on this or am I missing something, too?!
If this is true, it begs a big fat question as to why God did not
forsee this!
Given that he is omniscient, why was it that he failed to elevate
newborns' vitamin K levels at birth, so they could develop
prothrombin, so they would be ready for the circumcision at 8 days (or
why not put it off until 6 weeks)?
Why is it that newborns are at increased risk for bleeding during the
very time period when cicumcision is deemed "appropriate"? Why is it
that for such an essential thing as blood clotting, this god designed
such a lousy system, requiring a continuous intake of vitamin K to
prevent a body bleeding to death? Is this the best he could
omnipotently do?
In fact, let's go further than this. Why is it that this God
instituted this practice in the first place? The supposed God of love
advocates painfully hacking a baby's foreskin off? How can this be?
Could this omnipotent God, who created the entire universe out of
nothing, by magic, not have found a more loving and gentle method? If
this God could mark a sinner like Cain without violently slashing the
tip of his penis, why could he not mark his devoted followers
similarly? Why could he not have made the foreskin be reabsorbed once
someone's heart turns to God? I really want some creationist,
somewhere, to explain this to me.
Budikka

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 11-25-2002 10:59 AM derwood has not replied
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 11-25-2002 11:08 AM derwood has not replied
 Message 4 by Mammuthus, posted 11-25-2002 11:23 AM derwood has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 4 (24219)
11-25-2002 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by derwood
11-25-2002 10:29 AM


Back then the increased oxygen levels in the atmosphere caused more Vitamin K production??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by derwood, posted 11-25-2002 10:29 AM derwood has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3 of 4 (24220)
11-25-2002 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by derwood
11-25-2002 10:29 AM


Hi SLPx!
For future reference, thread titles like these are considered outside forum guidelines by board administration because they don't show respect for fellow forum members:
  • another bit of Fred WIlliams hyperbole for the Cause
  • egomania a commonality in creationists
This thread title skirts the boundaries, but only because Walter Remine is not a member. If he were a member it would be in the prior category:
  • that crazy Walter ReMine....
Please keep thread titles and message contents within forum guidelines. Thanks!
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by derwood, posted 11-25-2002 10:29 AM derwood has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 4 of 4 (24222)
11-25-2002 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by derwood
11-25-2002 10:29 AM


deleted by M
[This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 11-25-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by derwood, posted 11-25-2002 10:29 AM derwood has not replied

  
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