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Author Topic:   The Plausibility of Alien Life
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 1 of 73 (495816)
01-24-2009 12:03 PM


in the topic "The source of Life homunculus asked
'If I ask you if you believe in aliens (that's intelligent life, for you young hipsters), you'd say, for example, no! then I'd say, but is it possible? your answer would have to be, yes! It doesn't matter how i answer the question, the constance (the possibility) stays the same.

I would like to address this in a new topic.

My point is that given that the size of the visible universe and the amount of galaxies within it, that it would be plausible that there are many stars similar to our sun. Given that a rocky planet that was at a distance that would allow for liquid water to occur and was dense enough to maintain a sizable atmosphere, then life would be possible and intelligent life would be plausible.

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own, the yes it would be plausible that alien life could travel to our earth.

Do you agree or not and why?

Edited by bluescat48, : typo


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by subbie, posted 01-24-2009 2:59 PM bluescat48 has responded
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 01-24-2009 3:34 PM bluescat48 has responded
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 01-24-2009 6:14 PM bluescat48 has responded
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 01-24-2009 6:23 PM bluescat48 has not yet responded
 Message 20 by Rrhain, posted 01-25-2009 7:42 PM bluescat48 has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
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Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 73 (495829)
01-24-2009 1:36 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
subbie
Member (Idle past 34 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 3 of 73 (495842)
01-24-2009 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 12:03 PM


The only (potential) point of disagreement that I have with you is

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own, the yes it would be plausible that alien life could travel to our earth.

I say potential because I'm not sure how far you want to go with this.

Is it plausible that alien life could travel to Earth? Yes.

It is plausible that alien life would travel to Earth? No. There is nothing particularly distinctive about our 3rd rock from a rather ordinary star that would attract alien life here. About the only thing Earth has to distinguish itself from even the other planets in our solar system is our production of radio waves. Since this production has been ongoing for around 100 years or so, there's nothing to attract any alien civilization that's more than 100 light years away.

It is plausible that alien life has traveled to Earth? (I'm addressing this point only in the interests of thoroughness. I'm fairly confident that you don't ascribe to this idea.) There's not a single bit of verifiable evidence that it has and, given what I said in the immediately preceding paragraph, good reason not to believe it has.


For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


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Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 4 of 73 (495846)
01-24-2009 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by subbie
01-24-2009 2:59 PM


Is it plausible that alien life could travel to Earth? Yes.

It is plausible that alien life would travel to Earth? No

I somewhat agree with the 2d statement. Maybe they would not intentionally aim directly for the earth, but if they were in the neighborhood for some unknown reason, seeing that the planet appears to be similar to there own start point, just might just take a look at it.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by subbie, posted 01-24-2009 2:59 PM subbie has responded

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subbie
Member (Idle past 34 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 5 of 73 (495848)
01-24-2009 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 3:07 PM


Obviously evaluating to probability of such a claim depends on many variables we can only guess at. However, my belief (which I cannot prove with objective evidence) is that such a possibility is exceedingly small.


For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


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Agobot
Member (Idle past 3604 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 6 of 73 (495849)
01-24-2009 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by subbie
01-24-2009 2:59 PM


subbie writes:

Is it plausible that alien life could travel to Earth? Yes.

It is plausible that alien life would travel to Earth? No

Why would they send life? Couldn't they send robots or droids across the universe, looking for other life? Why should they use the method Columbus used to discover America?

Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.


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Modulous
Member (Idle past 179 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 7 of 73 (495853)
01-24-2009 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 12:03 PM


My point is that given that the size of the visible universe and the amount of galaxies within it, that it would be plausible that there are many stars similar to our sun.

Well, with our meagre naked eye we can see several stars similar to our sun. Alpha Centauri A is a little over 4 light years away Tau Ceti is a mere 12 light years away, 51 Pegasi is about 50 light years away. I think from that alone we can infer it is almost certainly the case that there are many G V stars in the universe.

Given that a rocky planet that was at a distance that would allow for liquid water to occur and was dense enough to maintain a sizable atmosphere, then life would be possible and intelligent life would be plausible.

Agreed.

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own, the yes it would be plausible that alien life could travel to our earth.

Do you agree or not and why?

If by could you mean 'they would have the capability' then yes. Humans might have such capability to go visiting extra solar systems if we had the will to do it. By postulating that they are far more advanced that our own - we have entered into speculation territory. Does this mean they are able to find us (given the aforementioned size of the universe that is a tricky proposition normally). Then do they have the technology to get here within a time frame that they are concerned with and finally are there other planets they'd rather visit?

The final hurdle is that they would have to exist within same time as us. Right now we've only given off interesting signals into space for at best a century or so. That doesn't cover a lot of space. If the nearest more advanced species is a mere 6,000 light years away we might well be extinct before they receive the signal and decide to come here.

It doesn't seem likely from our perspective, but speculation can lead us all over the place I suppose.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 8 of 73 (495864)
01-24-2009 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
01-24-2009 3:34 PM


If by could you mean 'they would have the capability' then yes.

So if one involves speculation, let's assume that this planet has a natural history very similar to our own, formed about the same time, with similar amounts of water, the same minerals and same climate and everything evolved the same way. The one difference is no Dark Ages. the discoveries we made since the 1600's they made 1000 years earlier.
Thus they would be advanced. That is what I meant when I said

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 01-24-2009 3:34 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member (Idle past 179 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 9 of 73 (495870)
01-24-2009 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 4:55 PM


v
That is what I meant when I said "If such life was advanced, far beyond our own"

That's pretty much what I thought you meant - though I kept it open just in case. Since we don't know (by definition) what those advancements might be, it is speculation. I mentioned that they might have better technologies for finding us and maybe they have better methods of getting here, but it is pretty big on speculation and it would still be hugely impractical unless they had FTL technology.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 73 (495873)
01-24-2009 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 12:03 PM


bluescat writes:

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own, the yes it would be plausible that alien life could travel to our earth.

Do you agree or not and why?

Factors relative to life advanced far beyond our own.

1. Such life, being in a higher dimension than our own, like invisible forces of science may be invisible to the level of human eyesight.

2. Such life may have powers capable of affecting the human Psyche.

3. Such life, being of a higher intelligence may exercise higher energy than humans consider natural; i.e. supernatural powers.

4. Such intelligent energy may not be restricted to the necessities of life required on planet earth or to moving about in the cosmos. As is the case with inanimate forces operating in the cosmos, so may it be with these intelligent creatures.

In summary, if a higher level of intelligence is possible, why not a higher state of physiology.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1366 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 11 of 73 (495875)
01-24-2009 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 12:03 PM


bluescat48 writes:

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own, the yes it would be plausible that alien life could travel to our earth.

There is one thing that most people forget to consider when dicussing about alien life. Right now, we believe that the universe is about 13 billion years old, more or less. Our species has only existed a couple million years, more or less. Civilization on this planet has only existed for about 5-10 thousand years. We've only become technologically advance enough to transmit and listen to radio waves. We haven't even gone to another star system.

What are the chances of 2 or more technologically advance civilizations existing within communication range of each other at the same time to be able to come in contact with each other?

Time isn't just a problem. Time is THE problem.


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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 12 of 73 (495877)
01-24-2009 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
01-24-2009 6:14 PM


In summary, if a higher level of intelligence is possible, why not a higher state of physiology.

But why should a higher state of physiology imply supernatural powers.

Such life may have powers capable of affecting the human Psyche.

It wouldn't take much in that there have been humans who have done that.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 01-24-2009 6:14 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 772 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 13 of 73 (495882)
01-24-2009 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
01-24-2009 6:14 PM


Why Intelligent Life?
Hi, Buzsaw.

Being a long-time science fiction writer, I feel somewhat qualified to answer some of your questions. :D

Buzsaw writes:

In summary, if a higher level of intelligence is possible, why not a higher state of physiology.

In this case, "higher intelligence" need not be an entity with a better or more efficient brain than ours, or even be built superiorly to us: they need only to have studied longer, harder or with less distraction. No new "type" or "state" of intelligence is needed.

I won't say it that a new state of intelligence is impossible, but we don't need to discuss it to consider a being that could travel space.

I would personally be more interested in the non-intelligent alien life that we might find. I suspect that non-intelligent life is much more likely to be abundant, and it could really expand our knowledge of biology rapidly.


-Bluejay/Mantis/Thylacosmilus

Darwin loves you.


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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 14 of 73 (495885)
01-24-2009 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Blue Jay
01-24-2009 6:39 PM


Re: Why Intelligent Life?
I was wondering when someone would get around to alien life that was not humanoid. I agree that it would be more likely to find "non-intelligent life" considering that the planet would not have to be able to sustain more advanced forms of life.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 73 (495956)
01-25-2009 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 4:55 PM


Super And Natural Or Supernatural?
bluescat writes:

So if one involves speculation, let's assume that this planet has a natural history very similar to our own, formed about the same time, with similar amounts of water, the same minerals and same climate and everything evolved the same way. The one difference is no Dark Ages. the discoveries we made since the 1600's they made 1000 years earlier.
Thus they would be advanced. That is what I meant when I said

bluescat writes:

If such life was advanced, far beyond our own

Why require the same physiology as ours? Why not an advanced psyiology allowing for space existence and like inanimate objects which move about in the universe? Why not the possibility of intelligent properties relative to some objects which we humans would consider inanimate? Could, perhaps, the mysterious aspects of things like particles or some other phenomena be related to intelligence in them?

Many humans of sound mind have made claims of powers relative to alleged encounters involving entities greater than our own in both the good and evil such as witchcraft, voodoo, paganism, spiritism, Biblical, flying saucer claims, etc.

Is it rational to insist that each and every one of these, claimed throughout human history are all bogus? Multiple eye witnesses of sound mind, have attested to the phenomenon of levitation in spiritualist meetings, for example.

Is what earthlings regard as supernatural really super natural or, perhaps, a super and natural form of intelligent creatures.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by bluescat48, posted 01-24-2009 4:55 PM bluescat48 has responded

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