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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   Article: Religion and Science
TimChase
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 7 (217946)
06-18-2005 7:36 PM


Author's Preface: This is an article intended to argue for the complementarity of religion and science. The first couple of paragraphs may seem deceptively familiar, but I believe I may have managed to take the argument to new levels, particularly with my analysis of what "proper understanding" means. I am hopeful that I might recieve a little feedback on it.
Religion and Science
The religion vs. evolution debate has broken out once again, and certain groups are trying to get their religious views into high school classrooms — this time in the thinly-veiled form of "intelligent design," a broad tent where young earth creationists, old earth creationists, and people who simply prefer to remain more abstract can join together in common cause. In an online discussion devoted to the issue, one individual said that he couldn't really understand what the controversy was about. He argued that if God is omniscient, omnipotent, exists outside of the world He creates, and expects us to believe in Him through faith alone, then surely He would not have left any traces in His creation which would provide an empirical alternative to that faith. Viewed this way, the world discovered through science -- including evolution and the big bang -- is simply the divinely opaque means through which God created the world we now see.
I agreed. Properly understood, there is no conflict between religion and science: each deals with different human needs (and for some people, philosophy may satisfy the same needs that religion serves for others). The realm of empirical knowledge belongs to science, whereas religion ministers to the need for normative guidance. The question of whether or not God exists lies beyond the realm of empirical science, and properly belongs to religion and philosophy. Many scientists (including a good number of evolutionists) are in fact religious -- they simply do not let their religious views interfere with the quest for empirical knowledge. (For one example, see the "Science and Religion" interview with Kenneth R. Miller, available at http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/miller.html.) Properly, scientists will respect these beliefs of their religious colleagues, realizing they may very well provide those colleagues with the moral guidance which makes them better scientists. The importance of moral guidance, and, more specifically, the moral courage to deal with the ever-present possibility of failure in both the existential and cognitive realms, is not to be underestimated.
In the existential realm, religion properly provides the individual with the moral courage to act despite the possibility of failure, where failure can sometimes mean the possibility of actual death, and the fear of failure itself can often be experienced as such. Likewise, the fear of being mistaken -- where being mistaken may threaten our beliefs about who we are -- is at times experienced as a threat much like death itself. Here, too, there is need for moral courage, although of a somewhat different kind. Properly, religion encourages in its own way the view that while recognizing one's mistakes may be experienced prospectively as a form of death, the act itself brings a form of rebirth and self-transcendence, giving one the courage to revise one's beliefs when confronted with new evidence.
However, when people attempt to mix the realms of religion and science — attempting, for example, to use science to promote a given religious or philosophic view -- in the long run, given the very nature of the relationship between religion and science, the results will be the reverse of what is intended, and may end up damaging what in fact they hold most dear. For example, a proponent of science who believes that faith in God is absurd in the age of Science may end up creating a religious backlash against science itself among those who take a different view. But properly, empirical science cannot speak of the metaphysics of that which lies beyond the empirical realm and the ontology required by its naturalistic explanations.
Alternatively, those who attempt to use science to prove the existence of God will end up with a God susceptible to empirical criticism, when belief in God should be a matter of faith. A religious view rooted in science will be grounded in the shifting sands of scientific discourse, placed in constant threat of being uprooted by the newest scientific discoveries. For the better among those who initially accept this substitute for true faith, such a view will at first seem intoxicating, but will soon prove poisonous to their religious beliefs.
For others, the proper religious stance becomes transformed, and the proper intellectual courage to revise one's beliefs when confronted with new evidence is transmuted into its polar opposite. Intellectual "courage" becomes the will and the power to challenge, doubt and deny any body of empirical evidence or knowledge whenever it comes into conflict with their religious or political beliefs. At this point, one of the most fundamental ethical virtues — honesty -- has itself become undermined, and with it all the virtues which would normally be encouraged and taught through the moral guidance of religion. Properly, religious leaders who understand what is at stake will oppose "empirical" faith both for the contradiction which it embodies and as the antithesis of the true faith they seek to protect and nourish.
When properly understood, this unnecessary conflict between religion and science will be consigned to the oblivion it so richly deserves. Yet more could undoubtedly be done so as to avoid such misunderstandings and consequent conflicts in the future. Science has been and continues to be responsible for a great deal of humanity's material and intellectual progress. Religion is responsible for humanity's moral and spiritual guidance. The roles they serve are complementary and to a significant extent in today's world, interdependent. Religion and science each have their own inner dynamic, but religious and scientific communities share a common concern for humanity as a whole. If religion and science are to perform their proper functions in human society, they must remain separate, with their fundamental natures respected. But still there can be dialogue.
Some time ago, Pope John Paul II visited with biologists to discuss evolution and then ended official Catholic Church opposition to evolutionary theory. This was a good beginning, but unfortunately there wasn't much follow-up. If a dialogue were to begin between the religious and scientific communities, one born out of mutual understanding and respect, such a dialogue could serve the interests of both communities and perhaps even the interests of humanity as a whole. As one interesting possibility, a scientist of the same denomination as a given church might occasionally make a good guest speaker, particularly if he were to discuss the role that religious belief has played in his life and work, and he were to share a few of the more interesting, recent discoveries in his particular field.
In a sense, such religious scientists might serve as bidirectional ambassadors between the two communities, and would deserve honored places within both. If properly promoted, such guest speakers might help to boost church attendance, particularly if they are good speakers. And perhaps when church services are not being held, churches could make available rooms where scientists could discuss their work with the public, and even their concerns for some of the problems which currently face humanity. This could also serve as good public relations for the religious and scientific communities as a whole. I myself do not know where a dialogue between these communities would lead — this would be up to the participants. But I have little doubt that it could become quite interesting and enlightening for everyone involved.
This message has been edited by TimChase, 06-18-2005 07:57 PM
This message has been edited by TimChase, 06-18-2005 07:57 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 06-19-2005 11:28 AM TimChase has replied
 Message 3 by AdminNosy, posted 06-19-2005 12:28 PM TimChase has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 7 (218017)
06-19-2005 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by TimChase
06-18-2005 7:36 PM


Hi, Tim! Welcome to EvC! You have a coherent opening post, but it is a bit long. Is there any way to shorten it so as to "cut to the chase" a bit sooner and present your point? I will let other admins comment and promote you. I like the logic, however!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by TimChase, posted 06-18-2005 7:36 PM TimChase has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by TimChase, posted 06-19-2005 12:36 PM AdminPhat has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 3 of 7 (218019)
06-19-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by TimChase
06-18-2005 7:36 PM


Which Forum
I agree that it is long but that is only because it makes a very clear, complete case. The only danger with that is that it might be so wrapped up as to reduce discussion.
Promoting it will tell. My only question is:
Which forum? You tell me that and I'll promote it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by TimChase, posted 06-18-2005 7:36 PM TimChase has not replied

TimChase
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 7 (218025)
06-19-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
06-19-2005 11:28 AM


Length is a Bit of a Problem, I Know...
Yes, actually I understand the length is a bit of a problem. Originally, I had been aiming at 700 words or so -- but this meant leaving the piece in the realm of abstract theory, which resulted in the "huh!?" effect. Now it is at about 1,200 words. The ending is needed, partly because it indicates that we -- evolutionists who are calling on the help of Enlightenment Christians (as opposed to the Christian Fundamentalists) are sincere in our statement that there is no conflict between religion and evolution, that they are in fact complementary, that we are in fact willing to approach and work with their clergy to promote common interests through acts of demonstrated sincerity based on mutual trust, and serves to illustrate the complementarity which I envision, which nevertheless fully recognizes the fundamental separation between religion and science.
Of course, one could try to shave off some of the earlier part of the paper, but if this were to include the bit about how God is exists outside of the empirical realm, it will make the paper more difficult for laymen to follow. Likewise, we need the bit about religious scientists as this is taken up later in the paper in the part suggesting cooperation between the religious and scientific communities, and it also acts as the lead-in to the analysis of how religion promotes the two kinds of courage which are of central importance to the paper. (Incidentally, a friend of mine from Africa really loved the themes of courage and of common interests. I personally like to think that whether we realize it or not, we are now all members of the same tribe as a matter of simple necessity, let alone morality.)
Then there is the bit regarding the broad tent of intelligent design, but this acts as a kind of a hook -- it is intended to get people interested regarding when the other shoe will drop -- e.g., "This is what the intelligent design people are doing, now where is your moral criticism?" They have to wait a bit, but by the time that second shoe drops, the argument against "God in the gaps" has become a seriously revamped into something much closer to the hearts of honest clergy members, and the shoe drops with a bang, or at least so I would like to think. Then there was a sentence I included to make an agnostic happy -- the bit which mentions ontology -- not really needed, given the first paragraph, but it made the argument easier for him to follow by unruffling a few all-too-easily ruffled feathers. At the same time, I am not entirely comfortable with it as it -- as it damages the logical structure, and suppresses certain allegorical interpretations which might otherwise be more likely among more literary or philosophically inclined individuals.
Anyway, I am glad you like the logic -- I showed the paper off to a high school principal who couldn't get over how dense it was. (He loved it, but still had difficulty following its logic.) Part of that has to do with multiple, overlapping reading frames. But honestly, neither my wife nor myself regard it as that dense -- then again, we are both a bit more used to academic writing. Additionally, anyone who is used to analyzing the logical structure of arguments really shouldn't have that much difficulty analyzing the logical structure of this paper. But I am hopeful that those who are not looking for the logical structure will enjoy the piece as well.
Incidentally, the piece was at least partly inspired by a graduate level course on Plato's Replublic. My wife and I both fell in love with the course. Great instructor -- Barry Goldfarb, tutor at St. John's Graduate Institute in Santa Fe, sister college of St. John's College in Annapolis. The Great Books Program.
Anyway, I looking forward to criticism, particularly of the arguments or for the need of the kind of cooperation which I am suggesting. And I am also hopeful that it might act as the source for some discussion of the issues which are involved. The central argument is actually fairly abbreviated, but given the space, the rest seemed a bit superfluous.
This message has been edited by TimChase, 06-19-2005 01:00 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 06-19-2005 11:28 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by AdminJar, posted 06-19-2005 12:51 PM TimChase has replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 7 (218028)
06-19-2005 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by TimChase
06-19-2005 12:36 PM


Re: Length is a Bit of a Problem, I Know...
I think that there is a concensus that it's a worthwhile topic. The question is where to put it. Can I suggest a few possible locations and then you can decide which YOU belive would be best.
Education and Creation/Evolution
Biological Evolution
Social Issues and Creation/Evolution

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by TimChase, posted 06-19-2005 12:36 PM TimChase has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by TimChase, posted 06-19-2005 1:33 PM AdminJar has replied

TimChase
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 7 (218037)
06-19-2005 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AdminJar
06-19-2005 12:51 PM


Re: Length is a Bit of a Problem, I Know...
Sounds great! Seems to me to be "Social and Religious Issues," possibly "Faith and Belief" or "Social Issues and Creation/Evolution." But I could see someone wanting to place it in "Is It Science?," since this is more closely related to the central argument. Anyway, feel free to make several suggestions, but if there is one in particular which you think might be better, please indicate that. You have more familiarity with your forums than I.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by AdminJar, posted 06-19-2005 12:51 PM AdminJar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by AdminJar, posted 06-19-2005 1:36 PM TimChase has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 7 (218038)
06-19-2005 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by TimChase
06-19-2005 1:33 PM


Re: Length is a Bit of a Problem, I Know...
I'll promote it to social issues since that really seems to be the crux of your discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by TimChase, posted 06-19-2005 1:33 PM TimChase has not replied

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