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Author Topic:   Riddle me this
pingu
Unregistered


Message 1 of 21 (33953)
03-09-2003 4:26 AM


The bible is a work of eloquent prose and impeccable spelling. Creationists read their bibles studiously, I presume. Why then can't they spell, or write in proper sentences?

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2 of 21 (33964)
03-09-2003 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pingu
03-09-2003 4:26 AM


Or paragraphinate?

--Percy


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funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 21 (33977)
03-09-2003 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pingu
03-09-2003 4:26 AM


Hmm, what a thought provoking question. You are expecting what sort of discussion to come from this?

------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.


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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 4 of 21 (33989)
03-09-2003 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by funkmasterfreaky
03-09-2003 12:44 PM


Any sort of discussion
Yes indeed, funkmaster, any sort of discussion would be fine with me. In ye olde daze, the Bible was used as the main book of instruction to teach reading and writing, among other things. I would have thought that scholars of the Bible even today would have picked up basic spelling and grammar by osmosis.

So, what do you think?

Here's what I think. The Bible is supposed to be a guide to life, the universe and everything. Why, then, does it not tell me what to do in the event that I register a handle at and receive no confirmation email, thus forcing me to continue to post as a visitor while preventing me from using my "reserved" chosen name?


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Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 21 (33990)
03-09-2003 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by pingu~
03-09-2003 5:15 PM


Re: Any sort of discussion
And your point is?

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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 6 of 21 (33995)
03-09-2003 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Gzus
03-09-2003 5:21 PM


My point
My point would appear to be that Creationists don't read their Bibles very thoroughly. But that's debatable - perhaps good grammar and spelling are not obtainable by osmosis (I saw a Creationist write "devine" on another thread - sheesh!) or perhaps Creationists are unaware of how their poor English language skills are undermining their case, or perhaps they are just not very well educated.

Whatever. It's open for discussion.


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Admin
Director
Posts: 12631
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 7 of 21 (34041)
03-10-2003 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by pingu~
03-09-2003 5:15 PM


Re: Any sort of discussion
Your username and password have been remailed to the email address under which you registered. One common problem is a typo in the email address. If you do not receive your username and password soon then please email your correct email address to Admin and I will correct your registration information and mail it to you again.

------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator


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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 21 (34470)
03-15-2003 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pingu
03-09-2003 4:26 AM


The bible is a work of eloquent prose and impeccable spelling. Creationists read their bibles studiously, I presume. Why then can't they spell, or write in proper sentences?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Was it not the ejucated Pharasees of Christ's day who observed his miracles, saw with their own eyes, Lazarus raised from the dead, witnessed the changing of the water to wine, disregarded the prophecies concerning the messiah and such who were not wise enough to understand that all this meant the Jesus was indeed the missiah they were all yearning for and expecting to some day appear??
2. Did not Jesus and the apostles, themselves who were for the most part common folk, uneducated in the rudiments of the elite ideology of the time who declared that the foolishness of the things from above were wiser than the so called wisdom this world had to offer?

2. As the Bible states, folks of the latter days will be "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

3. Wisdom is that unique and wonderful ability of what to do with knowledge, and the more educated the world becomes, it seems, the worse off the world becomes and the further from truth we stray.


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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 9 of 21 (34493)
03-16-2003 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
03-15-2003 3:22 PM


quote:
3. Wisdom is that unique and wonderful ability of what to do with knowledge, and the more educated the world becomes, it seems, the worse off the world becomes and the further from truth we stray.

What is your evidence that the world is worse off today, and that this is a result of an increase in education?

What is the truth, and how do you know? What is your evidence that others who claim a different truth are wrong?

Are education, knowledge and critical thinking not required in order to assess what is the truth?


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Admin
Director
Posts: 12631
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 10 of 21 (34508)
03-16-2003 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by pingu~
03-16-2003 3:15 AM


Username and Password
Hi Pingu,

Haven't your registration problems been solved yet? Please see Message 7.

------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator


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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 21 (34510)
03-16-2003 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by pingu~
03-16-2003 3:15 AM


quote:

What is your evidence that the world is worse off today, and that this is a result of an increase in education?

1. Students of science and physics are taught to regard uproven theory to be more beneficial than common sense and logic.
Logic and common sense says you can't have a decrease in entropy to the super magnitude the earth experiences and the other planets with nothing atol going on.

2. The more learned we get, the more social problems such as divorce, drugs, raising and educating children, crime, personal freedom, etc.

3. The medical field is a dandy example. After patients, like the woman in Jesus's day, have spent all their living with the doctors and are still sick, some of them wake up to the fact that wholistic healing which treats the body rather than the symptom is what makes them whole.

quote:

What is the truth, and how do you know? What is your evidence that others who claim a different truth are wrong?

Truth is that which can proven to be factual. Ejukated soooooooophistikated schools of science and physics demand that the agenda be driven by unproven theories.

quote:

Are education, knowledge and critical thinking not required in order to assess what is the truth?

Yes, indeed, so long as schools of thought maintain a substantial amount of reason and logic coupled with fact to balance this theormania mindset being brainwashed into their students these days.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by pingu~, posted 03-16-2003 3:15 AM pingu~ has responded

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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 12 of 21 (34524)
03-16-2003 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Admin
03-16-2003 10:24 AM


Re: Username and Password
quote:
Haven't your registration problems been solved yet? Please see Message 7.

Saw it - and thank you - I can only think that Hotmail is kindly deleting these messages for me. Doesn't matter.


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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 13 of 21 (34525)
03-16-2003 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Buzsaw
03-16-2003 10:52 AM


quote:
1. Students of science and physics are taught to regard uproven theory to be more beneficial than common sense and logic.

Could you give me other examples of science that defy logic and common sense? I realise there may be teachers and scientists who are illogical and have little common sense, but I'm referring to science as a field of study, ie. a methodology.

quote:
Logic and common sense says you can't have a decrease in entropy to the super magnitude the earth experiences and the other planets with nothing atol going on.

Okay, this is one example but I dispute it. Firstly, I think you mean *increase* in entropy (disorder) - given that, why does this defy logic? Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not closed - we have a gazillion megawatts of energy from the Sun streaming into the system every second of the day.

Also, common sense and simple observation shows me that order does increase in localised areas: snowflakes form, embryos grow.

quote:
2. The more learned we get, the more social problems such as divorce, drugs, raising and educating children, crime, personal freedom, etc.

Are you saying these phenomena are recent? Did we not have rampant crime 200 years ago? Child labour? Domestic violence? Bloody warmongering? Would my personal freedom as a young woman in the year 1000, 1500, or 1900 have been greater or lesser than it is today?

quote:
3. The medical field is a dandy example. After patients, like the woman in Jesus's day, have spent all their living with the doctors and are still sick, some of them wake up to the fact that wholistic healing which treats the body rather than the symptom is what makes them whole.

In the past, did we not have plagues that wiped out millions? Did we not die much younger, often in childhood or childbirth? Were we not infested with parasites and other chronic problems?

Are you saying we are worse off today, with our modern sanitation, our understanding of disease, our vaccinations, our knowledge of body systems and our surgical techniques? (I'm not saying it's all perfect, just querying your comment that we are worse off than before.)

Your general comments are not making much sense to me yet. Can you be more specific? Hopefully my questions will help guide your responses.


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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 21 (34528)
03-16-2003 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by pingu~
03-16-2003 6:09 PM


quote:

Could you give me other examples of science that defy logic and common sense? I realise there may be teachers and scientists who are illogical and have little common sense, but I'm referring to science as a field of study, ie. a methodology.

Evolution defies the logic and common sense that billions of thiss n thats don't assemble themselves into very complex things as we observe on earth by chance, no matter how much time you give it.
quote:

Okay, this is one example but I dispute it. Firstly, I think you mean *increase* in entropy (disorder) - given that, why does this defy logic? Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not closed - we have a gazillion megawatts of energy from the Sun streaming into the system every second of the day.

I believe you need to reread my statement. I said entropy decreases on earth while the other planets are doing nothing. If anything the other planets and the sun are increasing in entropy. Logic and sense says if the earth decreases, the others should likewise. They're all open systems, are they not?

What I'm saying is that everyting on earth came to be by a decrease in entropy (imo creative intelligence at work)

quote:

Also, common sense and simple observation shows me that order does increase in localised areas: snowflakes form, embryos grow.

Did I say something to contradict that?

quote:

Are you saying these phenomena are recent? Did we not have rampant crime 200 years ago? Child labour? Domestic violence? Bloody warmongering? Would my personal freedom as a young woman in the year 1000, 1500, or 1900 have been greater or lesser than it is today?

Have you checked out the rate of increase in crime over the last 50 years? I'm 67 and I know what's happening. On child labor, we've gone from that to the kids having all the idle time to run the streets and get into trouble. Child labor laws fixed that for the most part a long time ago. 50 and 60 years ago we as kids could get jobs to earn some money and learn skills and how to work with no fear of legal hassle. Nowadays everybody's afraid to hire a kid because of the minimum wage, legal law suits and government regs.

[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-16-2003]


This message is a reply to:
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pingu~
Unregistered


Message 15 of 21 (34531)
03-16-2003 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Buzsaw
03-16-2003 6:54 PM


quote:
Evolution defies the logic and common sense that billions of thiss n thats don't assemble themselves into very complex things as we observe on earth by chance, no matter how much time you give it.

Forgive me, but that's the kookiest definition of "evolution" I've ever heard.

quote:
I believe you need to reread my statement. I said entropy decreases on earth while the other planets are doing nothing. If anything the other planets and the sun are increasing in entropy. Logic and sense says if the earth decreases, the others should likewise. They're all open systems, are they not?

What I'm saying is that everyting on earth came to be by a decrease in entropy (imo creative intelligence at work)


Sorry, I did misunderstand because my interpretation was the only way I could make sense of what I thought you were trying to say. Thank you for the clarification. However, I still disagree - if what you have called a decrease in entropy refers to the life on Earth, you can't compare that to the sun and other planets which have no life. Obviously on planets with no life, there will be no increasing complexity in the biosphere. That's logic.

quote:
Have you checked out the rate of increase in crime over the last 50 years? I'm 67 and I know what's happening. On child labor, we've gone from that to the kids having all the idle time to run the streets and get into trouble. Child labor laws fixed that for the most part a long time ago. 50 and 60 years ago we as kids could get jobs to earn some money and learn skills and how to work with no fear of legal hassle. Nowadays everybody's afraid to hire a kid because of the minimum wage, legal law suits and government regs.

You have referred to one of the many examples I gave - I would welcome your comments on the others.

Regarding child labour: I'm not quite sure of the point you're making - you've gone from saying that too much education takes us further from the "truth", to saying that child labor laws are putting kids on the street where they make trouble. Is there a causal connection here? I don't see one.


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