Genius in other species

The size of the brain in human beings today does not differ greatly from that of their ancestors, who existed one hundred thousand years ago. Yet it is only forty thousand years ago that man began to discover what it can really do with its brain (at least, this is what the archaeological record shows).Would it ever be possible for this sort of cultural revolution to appear in the societies of other higher mammals, bottlenosed dolphins for instance?Just as there are human beings whose intellect towers over that of their peers, is it possible that certain members of other species may also exhibit genius?---This is my first post, I hope that it fits the criteria of one of the discussion forums!This message has been edited by Zawinul, 12-24-2004 04:45 PM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.AbE: Welcome to EvC. Hope your stay is an interesting one. In my signature are some links that can be of benefit to newcomers around here, especially the three bottom ones in the quote box.This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 12-24-2004 05:47 PM

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AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

are we sure that there are not?we see apes in studies with sign language, some much better than others, and able to express abstract thought. elephants painting modern art. whales with songs never before used by that species.a snow monkeys of japan (actually macaques)
Blue Planet Biomes - Japanese Macaquewhere one has invented? learned? to wash it's food first, and the offspring learn this behavior.genius is doing something that the species has never done before.enjoy.and welcome to the fray. added: isn't this cute? This message has been edited by RAZD, 12-24-2004 07:00 PM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

It is cute.
But I don't think I would ask it for a date.As for animals communicating? How else would they get a date, stay in touch, recognize their species?
The apes in sign language are asked to adopt human abilities. I say leave them alone and let them work out their own advances, if they want them. We mess with too much, and a fine mess that gets us into.Baked sweet potato casserole.

and when they invent new words for their use?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

delete duplicate.This message has been edited by RAZD, 12-26-2004 19:46 AM

Fascinating, I especially enjoyed reading about ‘Imo’, the one and a half year-old female who inspired her entire troop with her amazing monkey brains. She would make a ball of wheat and sand and throw it into the water. The wheat would float up to the top where she could pick it up and eat it without the sand. — This monkey is smarter than me!Have you ever heard of the ring-blowing phenomenon? It is a rare skill among dolphins that - like the Japanese Macaque’s potato washing — is the result of observational learning or discovery.http://www.earthtrust.org/delrings.html. A brief quote from the page:"The fact that ring-blowing is rare and that we have two babies doing it suggests that one baby learned it from the other... Whether it was a case of observational learning, or one "taught" the other, we don't know... but it'd sure be interesting to know."In reply to PecosGeorge, who said, I say leave them alone and let them work out their own advances, if they want them. We mess with too much, and a fine mess that gets us into.I second that. It is enough that we destroy their habitat, without corrupting their culture.This message has been edited by Zawinul, 12-25-2004 19:01 AM

The question was if using it's brain it more or less exponentially is adapting to its nervous system as in the op. Is gaining a few words such an increase as presumed in humans? I think we are being lulled somewhat into thinking that technology can extend our brain as dialysis does the missing socially brusied kidney. As long as we don't have it common, that our HARDWARE is not flesh-friendly (not designed with biology first and foremorest in mind) it will even be hard for humans to communicate what is necessary in making the comParison to algae and other or not like creatures of multicelluarlity.This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 12-25-2004 21:58 AM

had not seen the ring blowing dolphins ... wonder how similar it is to blowing smoke rings?I first ran into Imo on one of those PBS NATURE shows ... before the wheat invention (I posted from memory and then found the article).One also has to worry about how much the inventions of other animals are destroyed by the works of man. The song of the dodo if you will.(that's from the title of a book and refers to no existing\remaining record of what the song of the dodo sounded like)added by edit -- it's a great book, very readable for it's size.
amazon.com book info (click)This message has been edited by RAZD, 12-26-2004 20:04 AM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

expotentially greater use or just a large percentage increase? the current IQ level for genius is set somewhere around 140 to 145 points, though there are many people that hit 200.gaining a few words is not a big deal -- that is learned behavior if you will.but inventing new words is a different matter, especially when those "wordsigns" can express things at a different level than before.communication with algae will mean learning to converse at a cellular level (a new kind of cell phone) and perhaps come through a fusion of hardware with 'bio'ware.I was dissappointed in the Ray Bradbury "The Tatooed Man" (SciFi) as I had though of a storyline where the "tatoos" were embedded circuitry that built a hardwired PC tapped into the bio-operating system to enable compuation at a subconscious level.nanobots are another concept leading in this direction. hard to say where it will go and whether it will be advantageous.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Wasn't it "Illustrated Man"? And since IIRC it was written back in the late 40's or early 50's, the idea of embedded circuitry, would have been really neat. Back then the whole orientation was towards scaling up, to planet sized computer systems not towards smaller micro systems.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

well of course. but when you read a story is in your time.there was another one involving nanobots (don't remember to well tonight (hic) and it had an interesting religious motif, but again I was dissappointed in the ending.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}