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Author Topic:   Mullers Explanation of Irreducible Complexity
wnope
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 3 (209219)
05-17-2005 11:33 PM


One of the core arguments for Intelligent Design is Behe's Irreducible Complexity. For those who are not familiar with it, IC is a system in which if any part is taken out, the system falls apart. This means, according to Behe, that it could not have evolved by chance because the odds of each part evolving and then fitting together with the next is close to nothing.
However, Behe is not completely correct. Many of his examples of IC are Irreducibly complex in the sense that it could not evolve in the way he explains. However, there are several alternative explanations. After searching through them, the most convincing one I found, surprisingly, was written long before the term "Irreducible Complexity" existed.
In 1939, H.J. Muller, who later won the nobel prize in 1946, wrote a very interesting article about gene duplication and systems called "Reversibility in Evolution Considered from the Standpoint of Genetics". Homeotic complexes that start as a independant parts can, over time, grow dependant on each other. His work has been built upon countless times.
For instance, take the blood clotting system (which Behe no longer claims is IC). While the name "Ken Miller" may receive a groan from several ID proponents, realize that Behe actually retracted blood clotting as an example of IC because of articles such as his. Miller's article follows Muller in the sense that the blood clotting cascade was created via mutation of a duplicated gene.
A good analogy for indepedant parts becoming depedant is to look at the evolution of the eurkaryotic cell. The Golgi apparatus packages proteins and sends them out. The Endoplasmic reticulum serves as a pathway for protein synthesis, and so on. If you took out any of the various parts of protein synthesis and transportation, the system falls apart. So, like the flagella, this must be Irreducibly Complex, right?
Actually, the ER, Golgi apparatus, and many other parts of the cell are made of chemicals very similiar to the membrane of the cell. The current theory is that infolding of the cell allowed for compartmentalization of functions (enzyme pathways) and thus more effective reactions. Another way to increase effectiveness is to have each component have a specific job. Over time, these compartments eventually became dependant on each other because no one component could do every job. Today, the parts seem so different that it is hard to imagine how it could arise naturally.
So the next time you yell "mouse-trap", think of Muller.
This message has been edited by wnope, 05-18-2005 09:27 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 05-18-2005 12:10 AM wnope has replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 3 (209230)
05-18-2005 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by wnope
05-17-2005 11:33 PM


Needs some work
If it hasn't been said already: "Welcome, to EvC".
A pretty good beginning but I think this needs some work before it can be promoted.
First: the title
Is this to be more focussed on "Ways for Irreducible Complexity to Evolve" or some such topic.
Then you would add a paragraph up front given a general review of what IC is supposed to be and what your personal view of the issue is. This gives others something to debate against.
Then one or more of your examples might be given in support of your view. If you edit post 1 to use those suggestions it should be promotable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by wnope, posted 05-17-2005 11:33 PM wnope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by wnope, posted 05-18-2005 9:28 PM AdminNosy has not replied

wnope
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 3 (209516)
05-18-2005 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
05-18-2005 12:10 AM


Re: Needs some work
Anything else needed for this topic?
This message has been edited by wnope, 05-31-2005 07:42 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 05-18-2005 12:10 AM AdminNosy has not replied

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