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Author | Topic: The Conveyor Belt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Have you ever wondered why all you guys in Canada freeze while the Brits stay warm? Isn't North America at about the same latitude?
Today I felt the bite of an Autumn fresh wind coming through the window, when I woke up in bed. And for a fearful moment I thought the 'Conveyor belt has stopped.'lol.If your wondering what I'm on about it's the Oceanic Conveyer belt, which is responsible for the relatively warm climate we enjoy in Northern Europe, but apparently global warming threatens to bring the system to a grinding hault.You see all that warm water getting tugged up North warms the wiz an extra 5 degrees apparently. 'So what Mike? are you the weatherman?' Well no, but I have been reading how we are getting some 'free heating' in Britain and then I realised that the water on earth is 70% of the surface, and if this system does come to a halt we could be digging out some old wooly jumpers. Am I alone in thinking this is a frightening prospect?
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
It might just be earth's natural cycles.
Humans contribute about 5.5 Gigatons of Carbon to the Atmosphere. Total number in the atmosphere is 750 Gigatons of Carbon. Humans put a relatively small amount of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere. The Ocean and atmosphere exchange about 90 Gigatons of Carbon per year too. There has been an increase in human C02 production from 3 to the current 5.5. However, these affects are benign and do not have the apocalyptic effects the environmentalists would have you believe. The only increase in temperature was during the Industrial Revolution to about 1940. Since then, CO2 levels have at least tripled and overall global climate has not changed. The information cited by the environmentalists are largely incomplete and focus on small regions. The earth has gone through numerous and extreme changes in temperature throughout the last 2000 years. About 1000 years ago there was a Medieval Climate Optimum which made Greenland habitable. We are currently recovering from the "little ice age" and have been on a 300 year warming trend. As for the hole in the ozone layer, it may be increasing but the evidence that supports human causes is minimal and biased at best. Environmentalists yelled a loud, "I told you so!" when a shelf of of antarcica fell off. What they failed to tell you is that three other penninsulas showed growth.
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Yaro Member (Idle past 6496 days) Posts: 1797 Joined: |
Ya, damit! Air pullution ain't all that bad! I wan't 3 SUV's Right now, pronto! Even though I'm single and live in an urban city, and spend most of my time a couch potatoe. I wan't a ford 4x4 truck!
heheheh... Sorry, just had to play the sterotipical fat american for a sec
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Do you believe the conveyor belt could stop though?
the idea of something so huge slowing and stopping would surely effect our weather.Or rather the belt slowing and stopping.lol. [This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-23-2003]
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
Ya, damit! Air pullution ain't all that bad! I wan't 3 SUV's Right now, pronto! Even though I'm single and live in an urban city, and spend most of my time a couch potatoe. I wan't a ford 4x4 truck! heheheh... Sorry, just had to play the sterotipical fat american for a sec I don't think I said anything about air pollution. I think I said something about Global Warming. There's a difference. I'm all for the cut downs on SOxs and NOxs. As for CO2, It is the Greenhouse Gas that will eventually fry us all like sausages.Oh wait, the earth's temperature is decreasing by .008 degrees a decade. see below post for a correction [This message has been edited by xwhydoyoureyesx, 09-23-2003]
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
It's certainly possible I guess, but it won't be because of Global Warming. It will just be part of earth's natural cycles.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
You could be right. But when the earth warms up , obviously the icey north starts to melt, which is what oceanographers say causes havoc with the belt. Is this just an earth cycle? Does the earth slowly get warmer untill we hit a big freeze?
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
xwhydoyoureyesx writes:
quote: Incorrect. There has been a global warming of 1.1F over the past century, 1.5F over the last 150 years. The ten warmest years have been since 1983 with seven of them in the 1990s. In fact, the 90s were the warmest decade in the last 1,000 years and 1998 was the warmest. ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Yaro Member (Idle past 6496 days) Posts: 1797 Joined: |
I find this interesting.
I don't know much about the issue, but the fact that the Kyoto treaty was drafted by an international coalition of hundreds of scientists, allways seemed to weigh the credibility in their favor. I confess I have not read the documents they produced, but would be very interested in studying the issue further, and more critically. Would you mind supplying me with links, or other info?
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
'the 90s were the warmest decade in the last 1,000 years and 1998 was the warmest.'
Yes, I am assuming there are definately records that would confirm this, the big question is are we the cause of the global warming , or is this the way it happens? Is the belt stopping inevitable, in other words, because of the cycles the earth goes through. [This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-23-2003]
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
Incorrect
oops. you're right. I read wrong. The earth's temperature has been increasing at about .008 degrees a decade. Really sorry about that. The temperatures are actually down from the mean temperature of .022 degrees a decade. The greatest average increase was earlier to about 1940. The CO2 rate had tripled since then and the increase in temperature didn't have a correlation. and In the last 1000 years? that's because 1000 years ago, the temperatures were higher than they are now. The earth experienced a little ice age and the temperature has been increasing steadily for the last 300 years. [This message has been edited by xwhydoyoureyesx, 09-23-2003]
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
And as for the Kyoto conference? A growing number of scientists do not agree with the ideas discussed there based on an extreme lack of evidence.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
A growing number of scientists do not agree with the ideas discussed there
A few names, perhaps?
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xwhydoyoureyesx Inactive Member |
A few names, perhaps? sure.
Earl Aagaard, PhD, Roger L Aamodt, PhD, M Robert Aaron, Ralph F Abate, Hamed Abbas, PhD, Reza Abbaschian, PhD, Paul Abbett, Wyatt E Abbitt III, David M Abbott Jr, Ursula K Abbott, PhD, Will S Abbott, Riaz F. Abdulla, PhD, J M Abell, Philip H Abelson, PhD, Wayne Aben, Grady Ables, Earl A Abrahamson, PhD, John Abrams, David Acerni, J Wayne Achee, Hans J. Achemann, D T Achord, PhD, Ernest Achterberg, Gene Ackerman, John R Ackerman, William Ackerman, Richard E. Ackermann, Terry Ackman, Donald O Acrey, Lee Actor, Robert K Adair, PhD, Brian Adam, PhD, Chris Adam, John A Adam, PhD, Adams, Arthur Adams, Brook Adams, Charles K Adams, Craig Adams, Daniel Adams, PhD, Daniel B Adams Jr, Dell Adams, Donald Adams, Donald S Adams, Eugene Adams, Gail D Adams, PhD, George B Adams, PhD, Gerald J Adams, PhD, Gregory Adams, Henry Adams, Henry Adams, Howard Adams, James W Adams, Jim Adadms, John Adams, John E Adams, PhD, Kent A. Adams, Leonard C A Adams, PhD, Louis W Adams, PhD, Michael P Adams, Neil Adams, PhD, Opal Adams, Peter Adams, Phillip Adams, PhD, Richard E Adams, Richard L Adams, Robert F Adams, Roy B Adams, Roy M Adams, PhD, Steve W Adams, Walter Adams, William D Adams, William M Adams, PhD, William W Adams, Wilton Adams, PhD, Wilton T Adams, PhD, Wm J Adams, George Adcock, Rusty Adcock, MD, Lionel P Adda, PhD, Albert W Addington, Tim Addington, Bill Addison, John K Addy, PhD, C William Ade, Albert H Adelman, PhD, Barnet R Adelman, L A Adkins, Michael F Adkins, Ronald A Adkins, PhD, T Adkins, Norman Adler, PhD, Lt Col Jacques J Adnet, Anthrony J Adrignolo, PhD, Harry Adrounie, PhD, Richard A Adsero, Steven E Aeschbach, Stephen Affleck, PhD, Siegfried Aftergut, PhD, Jack Agan, Larry D Agenbroad, PhD, Sven Agerbek, George Aggen, PhD, Norman A Aggon, Vincent Agnello, MD, Kenneth Agnes, Mark Agnew, M C Agress, Jorge T Aguinadlo, Roy Ahalt, Robert Aharonov, Richard Ahern, Phillip Ahlberg, Kevin Ahlborg, Mark Ahlert, Terry Ahlquist, Mumtaz Ahmed, PhD, Rafique Ahmed, PhD, Robert Ahokas, PhD, H W Ahrenholz, Edward Ahrens, Rolland W Ahrens, PhD, Robert M Ahring, PhD, John J Aiello, Joseph P. Aiello, MD, S F Aiello, Phil Aigner, Brian R Ainley, Ainsworth, Alfred Ainsworth III, E Bud Ainsworth, Oscar R Ainsworth, PhD, S Aisenberg, PhD, David J Akers, Linda Akers, Willie Akers, Wayne Henry Akeson, MD, Thane Akins, Korkor Akoto, Akram, PhD, John Alai, Robert J Alaimo, PhD, Greg Alan, Vincent M Albanese, A Henry Albaugh, Ed Alberding, Timothy A Albers, MD, Edward Albert, Eric K Albert, PhD, Wm L Albert, James L Alberta, Mark W Albertsen, Frank Addison Albini, PhD, D Douglas Albrecht, Robert Albrecht, Rudolph C Albrecht, Fred R Albright, PhD, James C Albright, PhD, Robert Lee Albright, PhD, Tad B Albright, Marcus Albro, Allwyn Albuquerque, Ernest C Alcaraz, PhD, Garrett D Alcorn, MD, Luis Aldecoa, Frank Alder, Ronald G Alderfer, PhD, Thomas Alderson, PhD, Bill Aldrich, Franklin D Aldrich, PhD, Richard J Aldrich, PhD, Samuel Aldrich, PhD, Samuel Aldrich, PhD, David Aldridge, Robert Aldridge, Wm M Baldwin, Peter C Alecxih Sr, PhD, Russell J Alameda Jr, Perry B Alers, PhD, Steven J Alessandro, Alex F Alessandrini, Joe Alex, Danrick Alexander, Dave Alexander, Harold R Alexander, Ira Alexander, James F Alexander Jr, John C Alexander, Michael L Alexander, Nelson Alexander, Robert Alexander, Moorad Alexanian, PhD, Rex Alford, Robert Alford, Roger C Alig, PhD, R Allahyari, PhD, Dennis Allard, Joel Alldredge, Arly Allen, Belle Allen, Charles C Allen, Christopher G Allen, Clayton H Allen, PhD, David Allen, PhD, Emma G Allen, PhD, Eric R Allen, PhD, F. J. Allen, James Allen, PhD, John L Allen, Kenneth Allen, Merrill P Allen, Mike R Allen, PhD, Pampselo Allen, Randall Allen, Robert Allen, MD, Robert C Allen, Roger B Allen, PhD, Thomas H Allen, PhD, William Allen, William Allen, Robert T Van Aller, PhD, Carl Allesandro, Jonathan Alley, MD, Robt W Allgood, Ronald Alli, Craig Allison, Ronald C Allison, MD, Terry Allison, Kevin E Allisonn, John J Allport, PhD, Albert L Allred, PhD, Ivan D Allred Jr, Victor D Allred, PhD, Arthur W Allsop, Gary L Allurg, MD, R A Allwein, Frank M Almeter, PhD, Richard E Almy, Patrick Aloutto, PhD, James Aloye, Reevis S Alphin, PhD, A Frank Alsobrook, John Alsop, PhD, Sally Alston, Charles Alt, Vincent O Altemose, Timothy Altier, David Altman, PhD, Melvyn R Altman, PhD, Ronny G Altman, Tracy Altman, PhD, Peter C Altner, MD, Edward E Altshuler, PhD, Burton M Altura, PhD, Antonio Alvarez, Byron Alvey, Vern Always, Bradley A Aman, David Saint Amand, Charles D Amata, PhD, Charles Amateis, Ronald Amberger, PhD, Leo E Amborski, PhD, Maynard Amdahl, Donald F Amend, PhD, Marvin E Ament, Richard Amerling, MD, Robert C Amero, Edward J Ames III, Martin Ames, Richard Ames, MD, Michael Amick, Duane R Amlee, A S Ammar, Moris Amon, PhD, Pierre Saiut- Amond, PhD, Richard D Amori, Bonnie Amos, PhD, Dewey H Amos, PhD, J Reeves Ampsco, A Amr, PhD, Desiree Armstrong, PhD, Fred Amsler, MD, Adolph L Amundson, James Amy, Sal A Anazalone, Ernest J Andberg, G Robt D Andborn, John Anders, MD, Donald A Andersen, PhD, Gene P Andersen, Randall H Andersen, Terrell Andersen, PhD, Torben B Andersen, PhD, Wilford H Andersen, PhD, A E Anderson, Allan C Anderson, Anderson, Arthur G Anderson, PhD, Berard J Anderson, PhD, Bruce Anderson, Bruce M Anderson, C M Anderson Jr, Carol Anderson, Chris Anderson, Cristopher Anderson, David A Anderson, David Anderson, MD, David Anderson, David O. Anderson, PhD, David R Anderson, PhD, Donald Hervin Anderson, PhD, Donald N Anderson, PhD, Douglas J. Anderson, MD, Elmer Anderson, PhD, Gerald L Anderson, Glenn L Anderson, Greg Anderson, Harrison C Anderson, MD, HC Anderson, Ingrid Anderson, PhD, J H Anderson, James Anderson, James Anderson, James R Anderson, James R Anderson, Janis W Anderson, Jimmy D Anderson, Joel Anderson, John Anderson, PhD, John O Anderson, Julia W Anderson, PhD, Keith Anderson, Ken Anderson, Kenneth E Anderson, Kerry Anderson, Larry Anderson, PhD, Larry D Anderson, Leif H Anderson, Lowell R Anderson, Mark A Anderson, Mary Anderson, Mitchell Anderson, Nathan Anderson, Orson L Anderson, PhD, P Jennings Anderson, Paul Anderson, Percy Anderson, R L Anderson, Reece B Anderson, Richard A Anderson, PhD, Richard C Anderson, Robert E Anderson, Robt J Anderson, MD, Roger O Anderson, Roy Anderson, Russell Anderson, Staren D Anderson, Thomas Anderson, Thomas Anderson, PhD, Thornton Anderson, Tom Anderson, Warren R Anderson, Deborah Anderstrom, John R Andrade, PhD, Manuel Andrade, Ivan Andrasik, Gilbert M. Andreen, Douglas Andress, James Andrew, James F Andrew, PhD, Lawrence L Andrew, Al Andrews, PhD, Frederick Andrews, Harry N Andrews, John S Andrews, PhD, Marion Andrews, Mel Andrews, Raynal W Andrews, Russell S Andrews, PhD, Louis Andros, Mb Andrus, PhD, Alfredo Ang, PhD, Robert E Angel, Ernest F Angelicola, Vincent Angelo, DDS, Francis M Angeloni, PhD, Steven T Angely, Claude B Anger, Robert Angevine, Ernest Angino, PhD, Kevin P Ankenbrand, David Arnold, Gregory Antal, Bradley C Anthanaitis, PhD, John Anthes, PhD, Eliazbeth Anthony, PhD, Jack R Anthony, Lee S Anthony, PhD, Robt D Anthony, Dan Antonescu-Wolf, MD, Willford Antonson, Sanford Apfelroth, PhD, Carl Apicella, Bruce W Apland, David R Appel, Daniel Appell, Norman Apperson, W H Appich Jr, Lynn Apple, PhD, Robert Apple, Alan Appleby, PhD, Robert H Appleby, Donald Applegate, DVM, Lowell N Applegate, John Applegath, Herbert S Appleman, Morris H Aprison, PhD, Charles Apter, PhD, Richard E Apuzzo Jr, J B Aquilla, MD, Ara Arabyan, PhD, Howard Arbaugh, Jaime Arbona-Fazzi, PhD, John Arcadi, MD, Ed Arce, John Arch, Amber G Archer, Bill Archer, Diane M. Archer, William Archer, Dave Archibald, Philip Archibald, Robert Archibald, John Archie, William Ard, William Bryant Ard, PhD, Christopher Arend, Dennis Arfmann, Harold V Argo, PhD, Guvenc Argon, Lawrence Ariano, MD, William Arion, PhD, Z S Ariyan, PhD, Gertrude Armbauster, PhD, Richard Armentrout, PhD, Walt Armer, Walter D Armer, Baxter H Armstrong, PhD, Clifford Armstrong, Glenn Armstrong, James Armstrong, James C Armstrong, PhD, Joseph C. Armstrong, PhD, Lou Armstrong, Mark Armstrong, Marvin D Armstrong, PhD, Robert L Armstrong, PhD, Robert Emile Arnal, PhD, Dana Arndt, Gregory Arndt, Jerome Arnett, MD, Ross Arnett, Charles Arney, Philip J Arnholt, PhD, C Arnold, Charles Arnold, PhD, Herbert K Arnold, John Arnold, Lance L Arnold, Randall W Arnold, Robert Arnold Jr, DVM, Rosemary Arnold, Timothy Arnold, Wm A Arnold, PhD, Lester C Arnwine, Casper J Aronson, Seymour Aronson, PhD, Adrian L Arp, PhD, Charles H Arrington, PhD, Dale E Arrington, PhD, Clement R Arrison, Jose J D Arruda, PhD, Arsate, Holly Arterbury, Emerson O Mc Arthur III, James Arthur, PhD, Richard Arthur, Charles G Artinian, MD, Max Artusy, PhD, A G Ash, Edward V Ashburn, Randolph Ashby, PhD, A Ashley, PhD, Holt Ashley, PhD, Warren C Ashley, PhD, Alvin Ashman, Jerome P Ashman, Walter R Ashwil, Walter Ashwill, Bob Ashworth, Monroe Ashworth, Owen Ashworth, Robert Ashworth, Orv Askeland, Ann Askew, Tom W Asmus, PhD, Winifred Alice Asprey, PhD, Mike Assad, Adel Assaf, George Aster, R Lee Aston, PhD, Jim Atchison, Curtis L. Atchley, Robert Aten, PhD, James Athanasion, James Athans, Robert D Athey Jr, PhD, Robert Douglas Athey, PhD, Arthur C Atkins, John Atkinson, John P Atkinson, MD, Larry Atkinson, Lynn Atkinson, Matt Atkinson, Stanley Atnipp, Sharon M Attaway, Ronald Attig, Leonardo D Attorre, William J Attwooll, Mark Atwood, PhD, Robt C Atwood, Darrel D Auch, James C Auckland, Walter Auclair, PhD, Berk Aucoin, W H Audley, Louis A Auerbach, Keith H Aufderheide, PhD, Wm R Aufricht, Dale Augenstein, PhD, J Augspurger, PhD, Frederick N Aukeman, Boris Auksmann, PhD, C M Aulick, PhD, Luther Aull, PhD, Bruce S Ault, PhD, John B Aultmann Jr, Henry S Aurand, Richard Aurand, Alfred E Austin, PhD, Carl Fulton Austin, PhD, D Austin, P E, Harold Austin, Michael N Austin, Robert L Austin, Ward Austin, William H Austin, Canan Avela, William Avera, Victor H Averbach, PhD, Mark Avereit, Jon R Averhoff, Frank Averill, PhD, Alex Avery, Donald Avery, Michael E Avery, Philip Avery, Kenneth Avicola, Arthur J Avila, Joseph Avruch, MD, M Friedman Axler, Mark Axtell, William P Aycock, George L Ayer, Walton Ayer, Robert C Ayers, PhD, Maynard F Ayler, William Aylor, John H Ayme, Bruce Ayres, T G Ayres, Dany Ayseur, Alison M Azar, Max Azevedo those are just the A's and I'm sure you'll agree I don't have to put the rest.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
I suggest you use google for a few minutes and research the underpinnings of your list. There are suggestions that some signatures may have been optained under misleading circumstances. In addition, some of the names may be suspect.
From: Error 404 - Page Not Found | PR Watch The institute is so lax about screening names, however, that virtually anyone can sign, including for example Al Caruba, a pesticide-industry PR man and conservative ideologue who runs his own website called the "National Anxiety Center." Caruba has no scientific credentials whatsoever, but in addition to signing the Oregon Petition he has editorialized on his own website against the science of global warming, calling it the "biggest hoax of the decade," a "genocidal" campaign by environmentalists who believe that "humanity must be destroyed to 'Save the Earth.' . . . It is easy to note, even in your list, that there are a number of MD's there. This seems an unlikely source for expertise on global warming. If you really want to defend this are you prepared to take each of the claims of the Oregon Institute for Science and Medicine and support them? I suspect that you have jumped on something without understanding what is behind it. If I am wrong you will be able to take the global warming issues one at a time and defend them.
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