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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
tubi417
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 144 (117521)
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


This is a very difficult question to ask and probably just as hard to answer.

I'm not arguing for or against evolution but I don't understand why the universe could be here just because it's here. Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe? It just doesn't seem right that all of space would be here just because it is.


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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 144 (117547)
06-22-2004 3:24 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 144 (117548)
06-22-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


Any special reason it shouldn't be here?

Seriously... what sort of impediment against the universe being here is plaguing your mind so badly?


"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 144 (117591)
06-22-2004 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


Back when I was in Cub Scouts we had a song ...
that explained all that. It went.

We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here.

We're here because we're here because we're here, because we're here.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 144 (117592)
06-22-2004 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


Seeing as there are things in our universe (natural laws and such) which shapes what is and what isn't, I don't think it's too far fetched to say that the universe itself follows a similar thing.

It might not have just randomly started; there might be an order to it which we can't see yet. We already know that is has a start of sorts (Big bang).


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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4721
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 6 of 144 (117594)
06-22-2004 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
06-22-2004 3:24 PM


I'm a little surprised you put this in the "how" Neddy boy. Isn't this a bit of a "why"?

Why is it here? - The topic, not the universe.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 7 of 144 (117622)
06-22-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mike the wiz
06-22-2004 5:39 PM


Probably right
yea, you're probably right Mike. Well, it's here now. Do we have a large vote to move it to faith and belief??

This message is a reply to:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4721
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 8 of 144 (117671)
06-22-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AdminNosy
06-22-2004 6:41 PM


Re: Probably right
Not really a need to move it I suppose, I'm just trying to be a pain in the ass aren't I. Lol.

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RingoKid
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 144 (117677)
06-22-2004 10:03 PM


My answer...
...the universe is here for you to enjoy

a place to be, a place to see, and a place to be seen in

make the most of your time in the universe because time is all you have...

...choose wisely, evolve or die


  
Beercules
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 144 (117688)
06-22-2004 10:28 PM


It's philosophy - metaphysics. I've never understood how someone can find the existence of the universe too arbitrary and then propose it was created by an equally abritrary being who exists without reason.
quote:
Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe?

This is what I mean. Why is the uncaused existence of the universe less believable than the uncaused existence of some vauge, unobservable higher intelligence?

This message has been edited by Beercules, 06-22-2004 09:29 PM


  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 144 (117833)
06-23-2004 7:05 AM


I can understand the universe being here always. But a universe with just oxygen and space sorta thing. Im not an expert at this stuff. But just here and then with the power to create itself an awesome sun, sky and earth and stars is kinda different.

  
Jerry
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 144 (117840)
06-23-2004 7:35 AM


Universe - why is it here?
My opinion is that this universe, or collection of matter, is nothing special at all. It's just one small object in an Infinity of such objects in Infinite space. Like anything that grows, there is a seed, it grows to maturity, it dies and decays and the matter (which decays or changes beyond our abilities to detect) is reused again and again. As for the seed, they usually come from the plant that existed before and seeing that I believe Infinity Exists that means there never was a first seed. I don't believe there was a first anything. I also don't believe there is one of anything except one Infinity.

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 144 (117849)
06-23-2004 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


where else would it be?

PE


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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5176 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 14 of 144 (117861)
06-23-2004 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


tubi417

Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe?

Well, the major stumbling block with that idea is how does an intelligence affect the workings of everything in the universe and leave no trace?Unless you are willing to admit that there is magic in world {and all the sillingness that entails} then the idea of a universe coming into existence on its own as the result of natural outcomes is the most likely explanation.

This message has been edited by sidelined, 06-23-2004 07:47 AM


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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 144 (117906)
06-23-2004 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


quote:
I don't understand why the universe could be here just because it's here. Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe? It just doesn't seem right that all of space would be here just because it is.

You could ask the same question about a myriad of natural phenomena. Why does it rain? Why are there nine planets? Why does the wind blow?

The personal answer is "Why not?" Why shouldn't there be a universe? Why shouldn't it rain? If a rain cloud is the product of a random colliding of moist air and low pressure, why can't the universe be the product of a random quantum fluctuation that caused the production of space/time? As humans we see things created as a result of human cause and expect everything else in nature to also have an intelligent cause. However, we seem to forget how random the universe really is. Not everything has a why, only a how.

This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 06-23-2004 12:29 PM


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