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Author Topic:   Funky has a question!
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 7 (26568)
12-14-2002 1:40 AM


Sorry you to bother you guys. But am I correct in thinking black holes are taking in matter and somehow turning it back into energy?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 12-14-2002 8:17 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2 of 7 (26575)
12-14-2002 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky
12-14-2002 1:40 AM


There are science writers who explain black holes and the processes surrounding them pretty clearly, so you could try the library if you find no one here puts it quite succinctly enough, but I'll take a stab at this.
A black holes is just matter compressed so densely that its gravity won't permit even light to escape. In isolation nearly invisible and indetectable in the radio spectrum, a black hole is of course detectable due to its enormous gravity. Due to quantum effects, black holes *do* give off a slight amount of radio energy, called the Hawking radiation after Stephen Hawking who first proposed it. After long eons, hundreds of billions of years I think, a lone black hole will eventually evaporate to nothing due to this effect.
A black hole surrounded by matter, such as often happens in the centers of galaxies, has a voracious appetite. Matter is drawn relentlessly in, and the resulting maelstrom just outside the black hole's event horizon (the point where the black hole's gravity prevents even light from escaping) can give off enormous amounts of radiation. The black hole's enormous gravity is the ultimate cause of the maelstrom and therefore of the radiation, but the black hole itself is only contributing the virtually indetectable Hawking radiation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-14-2002 1:40 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-14-2002 5:18 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 4 by wehappyfew, posted 12-15-2002 12:11 AM Percy has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 7 (26613)
12-14-2002 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Percy
12-14-2002 8:17 AM


Thanx for your help Percy. I appreciate it.
If administration would like to delete this thread then feel free.
------------------
saved by grace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 12-14-2002 8:17 AM Percy has not replied

  
wehappyfew
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 7 (26630)
12-15-2002 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Percy
12-14-2002 8:17 AM


Percy writes:
but the black hole itself is only contributing the virtually indetectable Hawking radiation.
That's not what I heard. I'm pretty sure the rate of evaporation increases exponentially as the black hole gets smaller, so the last few billion tons evaporate essentially all at once. Since the Hawking radiation is composed of equal amounts of anti and normal matter, this seems to me like a way to convert a black hole into a whole heck of a lot of energy real quick.
The problem with my analysis is that I don't really know squat about physics beyond the simple stuff. So we need TB or someone with actual understanding of the subject to set funky and me straight. Count me in with funky as not understanding how black holes don't act as giant recyclers of entropy. Please help us, TB.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 12-14-2002 8:17 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by John, posted 12-15-2002 12:48 AM wehappyfew has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 7 (26636)
12-15-2002 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by wehappyfew
12-15-2002 12:11 AM


quote:
Originally posted by wehappyfew:
Percy writes:
but the black hole itself is only contributing the virtually indetectable Hawking radiation.
That's not what I heard.

Percy is talking about the energy released as black holes rip matter apart. This energy is enormous compared to the amount of energy slowly released via Hawking radiation.
quote:
I'm pretty sure the rate of evaporation increases exponentially as the black hole gets smaller, so the last few billion tons evaporate essentially all at once.
Smaller holes evaporate more quickly. A hole with a mass roughly that of a mountain ought to be vanishing right about now, it it were formed in the very beginnings of the universe. A hole of about 30 solar masses would take about 1061 times the age of the universe to evaporate.
quote:
Since the Hawking radiation is composed of equal amounts of anti and normal matter, this seems to me like a way to convert a black hole into a whole heck of a lot of energy real quick.
In the final stages you would get a huge energy release.
quote:
Count me in with funky as not understanding how black holes don't act as giant recyclers of entropy. Please help us, TB.
A black hole could convert mass to gravitational energy and then radiate that energy back out very slowly, for the most part. I don't see how this the recycling of entropy. Since black holes will sequester energy for a very very long time, and since the universe appears to open ended, the black holes energy back into a vastly larger universe. Any contribution of energy will be insignificant.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by wehappyfew, posted 12-15-2002 12:11 AM wehappyfew has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-15-2002 5:29 PM John has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 7 (26662)
12-15-2002 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by John
12-15-2002 12:48 AM


quote:
A black hole could convert mass to gravitational energy and then radiate that energy back out very slowly, for the most part. I don't see how this the recycling of entropy. Since black holes will sequester energy for a very very long time, and since the universe appears to open ended, the black holes energy back into a vastly larger universe. Any contribution of energy will be insignificant.
But even so is it just condensing matter, making it extremely dense or, is it converting matter back to energy? Whether or not it releases the energy.
------------------
saved by grace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by John, posted 12-15-2002 12:48 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by John, posted 12-15-2002 5:59 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 7 (26665)
12-15-2002 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by funkmasterfreaky
12-15-2002 5:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
But even so is it just condensing matter, making it extremely dense or, is it converting matter back to energy? Whether or not it releases the energy.
Everything that falls beyond the event horizon is converted to gravitational energy.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-15-2002 5:29 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
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