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Author Topic:   Immanuel Kant
Punisher
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 46 (7308)
03-19-2002 12:29 PM


Has anyone read his work "Critique of Pure Reason"? I haven't put this in book review forum because I wanted to get evo's opinions regarding his influence. I've read only excerpts thus far.
Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by joz, posted 03-19-2002 12:58 PM Punisher has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Mister Pamboli, posted 03-19-2002 4:27 PM Punisher has responded
 Message 11 by Brad McFall, posted 03-21-2002 3:59 PM Punisher has not yet responded

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 46 (7315)
03-19-2002 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Punisher
03-19-2002 12:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Punisher:
..I've read only excerpts thus far.

Found the full text here....

http://www.hkbu.edu.hk/~ppp/cpr/toc.html

Give me a while to read it and I`ll get back to you....


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Replies to this message:
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5658 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 3 of 46 (7324)
03-19-2002 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Punisher
03-19-2002 12:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Punisher:
Has anyone read his work "Critique of Pure Reason"? I haven't put this in book review forum because I wanted to get evo's opinions regarding his influence. I've read only excerpts thus far.

I'm not sure what you're after, but I'll try to answer - Kant touches on issues which relate to the philosophy of science in many places, but his influence is still most strongly felt in ethics and the theory of mathematics.

He did have some interesting views on teleology (very roughly, the argument from design), for example that we can use the "design inference", as it would now be called, to study nature to "bring it under principles of observation and research by analogy to the causality that looks to ends, while not pretending to explain it by this means."

Kant recognised that the processes of life undoubtedly affected the development of living things, but saw also that the results appeared to meet needs that had not yet arisen, as if the processes were directed towards some end. But he rejected that any influence of a designing God could be seen in this because it was not objectively defensible. "No synthetical proposition can be made with
reference to what is beyond sensory perception."

Kant does see an analogy between thinking about nature as a purposive system and theology - he often describes it as logically equivalent: "it must be a matter of complete indifference to us ... whether we say that God in his wisdom has willed it to be so, or that nature has wisely arranged it thus."

God is the underlying order of nature and talk of God is not needed to explain nature. Indeed to explain how God and the world relate is outwith the realms of possible experience.

It would be most interesting to know what Kant would make of modern evolutionary and views of nature as a self-organizing system, but of course we can only speculate.

His work has had great influence on the Gaia movement.


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 Message 4 by joz, posted 03-19-2002 4:35 PM Mister Pamboli has responded
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joz
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 46 (7326)
03-19-2002 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mister Pamboli
03-19-2002 4:27 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
But he rejected that any influence of a designing God could be seen in this because it was not objectively defensible. "No synthetical proposition can be made with
reference to what is beyond sensory perception."

Sounds like a logical positivist there....


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Punisher
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 46 (7329)
03-19-2002 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mister Pamboli
03-19-2002 4:27 PM


Thanks for the info. I've heard him called the father of american secularism. He does make for some interesting reading.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Mister Pamboli, posted 03-19-2002 4:27 PM Mister Pamboli has responded

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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5658 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 6 of 46 (7331)
03-19-2002 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by joz
03-19-2002 4:35 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Sounds like a logical positivist there....

Ironically, yes in a way. Kant started the process of restricting the definition of reason and to what it can be applied which the Logical Positivists took to an extreme position. Many logical positivists reduced the scope of reason to the point at which meaning was entirely a matter of convention. The result was very subjectivist ethics because "good" and "evil" were only capable of being discussed by convention. This, of course, is some contrast to Kant's own ethical philosophy.


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 Message 8 by joz, posted 03-20-2002 11:40 PM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

  
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5658 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 7 of 46 (7332)
03-19-2002 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Punisher
03-19-2002 4:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Punisher:
Thanks for the info. I've heard him called the father of american secularism. He does make for some interesting reading.

NP

I can thoroughly recommend Ralph Walker's book on Kant in the Routledge "Great Philosophers" series.


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joz
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 46 (7456)
03-20-2002 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mister Pamboli
03-19-2002 4:56 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
Ironically, yes in a way. Kant started the process of restricting the definition of reason and to what it can be applied which the Logical Positivists took to an extreme position.

I thought that can of worms was opened by the British empiricists, Locke, Hume et al.....

Didn`t Kant attempt to "unify" (spot the physicist we`re obsessed with unified theories) British empiricism and Continental rationalism (Descartes and Co.) forming German Idealism?


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LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 46 (7461)
03-21-2002 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Punisher
03-19-2002 4:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Punisher:
Thanks for the info. I've heard him called the father of american secularism. He does make for some interesting reading.

Actually,Jefferson was the father of American secularism and everyone should really thank him for it...look at Saudi Arabia,Afghanistan in the last 5 years and a few other muslim country or to Europe from the 10th to the 16th century to see the result of a church driven state.


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joz
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 46 (7492)
03-21-2002 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by LudvanB
03-21-2002 2:14 AM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:

Actually,Jefferson was the father of American secularism and everyone should really thank him for it...look at Saudi Arabia,Afghanistan in the last 5 years and a few other muslim country or to Europe from the 10th to the 16th century to see the result of a church driven state.

Really I thought it was John Locke who came up with the whole concept of equality and "inalienable" rights of man concepts that were used in the bloodless (or Glorious) revolution in the 1680`s in England...

Surely given that Jefferson was paraphrasing Locke that makes Locke the Grandfather of American secularism.....

[This message has been edited by joz, 03-21-2002]


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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3113 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 11 of 46 (7513)
03-21-2002 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Punisher
03-19-2002 12:29 PM


I have always wished I had a job that would allow me to use Kant in my work rather than only to categorize him but I must say logically I was duly impressed and have considered scholarship that shows no advance over Aristotle is false as a Galileo would know by the same logic but done by the man without what telescopes did many years later. This way I could put up with Kant's alien but this is not Sagan's and the elite probably doesn't care aout this one either.

Kant, posed a question to me about the bound that Maxwell is the only one who attempted the answer but without benefit of Cantor. It is time to clean up the Hall. The diameter of the tube is not a milatary spec and may be Islamic as well. But so much for objectivity on True Seeker's. I may just stop posting there at all. Triple Helix is old news no matter the ...


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 Message 1 by Punisher, posted 03-19-2002 12:29 PM Punisher has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 15 by Mister Pamboli, posted 03-22-2002 12:44 AM Brad McFall has responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3708
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 12 of 46 (7516)
03-21-2002 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brad McFall
03-21-2002 3:59 PM


I feel the need to shore up the floor of this topic string, least the heavy name dropping causes much computer monitor damage, as Brad's text crashes towards the centre (spelling for joz) of the earth.

Moose

------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe


This message is a reply to:
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joz
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 46 (7560)
03-21-2002 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Minnemooseus
03-21-2002 4:14 PM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
/B]

Why thanks Moose....

Of course your post was a little drab, maybe it needed some color (spelling for Moose)


This message is a reply to:
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KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 5964 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 14 of 46 (7592)
03-22-2002 12:30 AM


seriously i think brad managed to kill 100000 of my brain cells with just that post.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


Replies to this message:
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5658 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 15 of 46 (7595)
03-22-2002 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brad McFall
03-21-2002 3:59 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Brad McFall:
Kant, posed a question to me about the bound that Maxwell is the only one who attempted the answer but without benefit of Cantor. It is time to clean up the Hall. The diameter of the tube is not a milatary spec and may be Islamic as well. But so much for objectivity on True Seeker's. I may just stop posting there at all. Triple Helix is old news no matter the ...

O Brad, I wish I could understand your posts!

I did a quick search on Google for sites which mention Galileo, Cantor, Aristotle and Kant in one article and guess what? Here's one I think you will enjoy ...
http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Scie/ScieHatt.htm

Meanwhile, here's a first. Have you ever tried that trick where you use Babelfish to translate something into French and then back to English? How odd it looks! How charming are the infelicities of language thus induced! Strangely, Brad's post comes out virtually unchanged ...

Kant, put a question with me about the limit which Maxwell is the only one who tested the response but without advantage of Cantor. It is time to clean the Hall. The diameter of the tube is not Spéc. milatary and can be Islamic as well. But so much for objectivity on the true researcher. I then just to cease announcing whole there. The triple spiral is old news none matter


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 26 by Brad McFall, posted 03-30-2002 1:24 PM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded
 Message 33 by Brad McFall, posted 04-10-2002 11:55 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded
 Message 45 by blitz77, posted 08-08-2002 5:45 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

  
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