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Author Topic:   (In)Accuracy of data.
Larni
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Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 1 of 11 (394792)
04-13-2007 9:01 AM


I was thinking about a persons use of evidence and how it comes about:

Some evidence appears to me to be directly from an occuring phenomena insofar as it comes direct to the senses - such as temperature. From here a person can draw a conclusion about the temperature.

That is not to say to measure the temperature precisely but to measure its effect on the person in question.

It's too hot, just right, cool, etc. But what we don't get is precise interval data; for this we use measuring machines. The best we can get with our senses is a catagorical interpretation of the data.

When we read the readouts on such measuring machines we recieve more accurate information.

We do this evey time we want to accurately assess occuring phenomena.

I would like to propose that for the above reasons any conclusions made by humans that does not include some form of metric in fundementally flawed by our ability to measure data accurately.

To do it accurately we need measuring devices or techniques.

Therefore, anything that cannot be measured to such a degree of accuracy cannot be used as evidence for the actuallity of a phemnona.

Is it Science, please.

Edited by Larni, : Better title.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 10 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-17-2007 3:52 PM Larni has responded

    
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Message 2 of 11 (394794)
04-13-2007 9:08 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Coragyps
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From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
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Message 3 of 11 (394802)
04-13-2007 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
04-13-2007 9:01 AM


It's too hot, just right, cool, etc. But what we don't get is precise interval data; for this we use measuring machines. The best we can get with our senses is a catagorical interpretation of the data.

Example: in 1980 it was hot in Oklahoma. After weeks of temperatures reaching 45C nearly every afternoon, I was standing in the shade waiting for a shuttle bus and thinking, "Gosh! It's pretty pleasant today!" The radio in the bus agreed - it was only 40C that day!

Yeah, Larni: actually measuring things leads to some surprises. The ability to do so seems to me to be one of the big factors separating cultures with technology from non-technological ones. You can't build a pyramid without a measuring tape.


This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 4 of 11 (394805)
04-13-2007 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coragyps
04-13-2007 9:48 AM


Too darn hot.
Good grief!

Living in the UK I can't imagine tempertures such as that; but it is a great example of how what we percieve is so often skewed by our self referential catagorical interpretation of data.

I know full well I would have died in such extreme heat, me being a whey faced Brit!


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ringo
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Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 5 of 11 (394840)
04-13-2007 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Larni
04-13-2007 10:16 AM


Re: Too darn hot.
Larni writes:

Living in the UK I can't imagine tempertures such as that;

I don't know if it has anything to do with your topic, but acclimatization is a factor too.

Here in Saskatchewan, when it hits 0C in September, we shiver and complain and generally react like Brits and Texans. By December, it would take -20C to get that reaction.

Then winter comes. :) In January, -10C is a heatwave. By March, 0C is T-shirt weather.

Incidentally, we can "measure" the temperature by observing whether or not puddles are frozen. But whether that is "warm" or "cold" depends on the time of year.


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jar
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From: Texas!!
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Member Rating: 4.8


Message 6 of 11 (394842)
04-13-2007 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Larni
04-13-2007 10:16 AM


In a cool spell, but it is spring
Today the temperature will only be around 31-33oC here, so it is a pretty cool spring day. But it is still early April.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Larni
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Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 7 of 11 (395378)
04-16-2007 6:49 AM


So what am I getting at?
Well, religious experience would fall into the non-measurable catagory (I assert) and this means it is inherently untrustworthy.

With no way to measure religious experience how can anyone possibly conclude it is real?


    
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16096
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 8 of 11 (395504)
04-16-2007 7:56 PM


I think you're absolutely wrong.

Scientists have to acknowledge the reality of a phenomenon, and study it, before they can measure it quantatively.

You have to study electricity before you invent the voltmeter, not vice versa.

I usually hear this one put up as a strawman: "Closed-minded scientists refuse to believe in anything they can't measure," and so forth.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 9 of 11 (395614)
04-17-2007 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2007 7:56 PM


I think you misinterpret me.

My point is tha we can only 'measure' or even acknowledge the actuality of the existance of a god (so I am led to believe) by personal experience.

As I asserted in the OP this is fundementally flawed in terms of accuracy and so any 'experience' of contact (in what ever form) with a god is terribly inaccurate to a point that we can draw no reasonable conclusions from.


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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 10 of 11 (395723)
04-17-2007 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
04-13-2007 9:01 AM


Faith cannot be measured
Larni writes:

Therefore, anything that cannot be measured to such a degree of accuracy cannot be used as evidence for the actuality of a phenomena.

So I guess this leaves religion out of Science. Of course we always knew that, right? :)
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 11 of 11 (395858)
04-18-2007 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Thugpreacha
04-17-2007 3:52 PM


Re: Faith cannot be measured
Or we conclude faith is a fundementally flawed and error prone mode of thought.

As we saw in chat, there are reasons to have believe in a god that are not religious.


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