Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,387 Year: 3,644/9,624 Month: 515/974 Week: 128/276 Day: 2/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What's wrong with this picture?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 1 of 172 (65142)
11-08-2003 3:21 PM


Here's a picture of the new partial-birth abortion ban being signed into law. What's wrong with this picture?
NARAL Pro-Choice America
Anybody?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-08-2003 3:28 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 3 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 3:34 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 12 by Coragyps, posted 11-08-2003 8:10 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 41 by Prozacman, posted 11-09-2003 2:04 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 56 by Dr Jack, posted 11-10-2003 8:38 AM crashfrog has not replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2 of 172 (65144)
11-08-2003 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
11-08-2003 3:21 PM


Looks good to me.
It's obviously a well thought out plan by a bunch of really ugly women.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2003 3:21 PM crashfrog has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2323 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 3 of 172 (65145)
11-08-2003 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
11-08-2003 3:21 PM


Other than the fact that there are no women there?
How about the fact that it wasn't that long ago that he stated that our culture isn't ready for a ban on abortion?
How about the fact that pb abortions are already ONLY done in extreme circumstances, thus making this a ban on a doctor/patient decision on a safe medical procedure deemed necessary?
How about the fact that the table cuts of the view of their jackboots?
------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2003 3:21 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2003 3:55 PM Asgara has not replied
 Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 4:25 PM Asgara has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 172 (65148)
11-08-2003 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Asgara
11-08-2003 3:34 PM


Other than the fact that there are no women there?
Well, that was it, really.
What a goof. You'd think that if you were going to launch the opening salvo in the War on Women, you'd at least have a woman there, so that it didn't totally look like sexism. But then, this is the GOP, and they're not exactly diversity-friendly, are they?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 3:34 PM Asgara has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 172 (65158)
11-08-2003 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Asgara
11-08-2003 3:34 PM


quote:
Other than the fact that there are no women there?
...............Nor any little children who've been waiting, growing, developing, listening for nearly nine long months for this wornderful opportunity to see and experience this life of human existence they've already been given, and who will be spared the terrible brutal death they would experience, were it not for these men....these little ones who, if they could speak would shout, HEY, IT'S NOT MOM'S BODY -- IT'S MINE WERE FUSSIN OVER HERE!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 3:34 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 4:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2323 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 6 of 172 (65165)
11-08-2003 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
11-08-2003 4:25 PM


ok buz...
Here is your choice...
no appeals that god is the only one who can make this decision
you must make a choice
one must die
1. a widowed mother of two small toddlers, their sole support and family
2. an eight month fetus with physical disabilities who, if born, will be orphaned along with its two siblings
No comments on the scenario. A simple answer is requested...1 or 2, which one dies?
------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 4:25 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 7:10 PM Asgara has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 172 (65200)
11-08-2003 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Asgara
11-08-2003 4:56 PM


Asgara, as I understand the bill abortion pba can be performed if mother's life is at risk but not necessarily if her health is at risk. The reasoning here is that nearly any excuse could be claimed for a mothers health to be at risk. If it meant life or death to the mother, naturally I'd have to go with the abortion, but that would be a very minute percentage of cases and I believe the bill provides for that anyhow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 4:56 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 7:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 9 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 8:00 PM Buzsaw has replied

joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 172 (65203)
11-08-2003 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
11-08-2003 7:10 PM


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other than the fact that there are no women there?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
...............Nor any little children who've been waiting, growing, developing, listening for nearly nine long months for this wornderful opportunity to see and experience this life of human existence they've already been given, and who will be spared the terrible brutal death they would experience, were it not for these men....
Good Call!
------------------
This is Prophecyexclaimed, seem to have forgotten my password...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 7:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-08-2003 8:17 PM joshua221 has replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2323 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 9 of 172 (65204)
11-08-2003 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
11-08-2003 7:10 PM


First, as Justice O'Connor pointed out, Nebraska's prohibition on partial birth abortions did not provide a "health of the mother" exception -- that is, an exception allowing the banned procedure if it is the best method for ensuring the health of the mother.
In Justice O'Connor's view, and that of a majority of the Court, such an exception constitutionally must exist even for a relatively late-term abortion. But the federal law includes no such exception.
Second, as Justice O'Connor also pointed out, Nebraska's law did not provide a sufficiently precise definition of what procedure, exactly, it was banning. The state legislature claimed to be targeting an uncommon and especially gruesome procedure known as "D & X" -- dilation and extraction. But in fact, according to Justice O'Connor (who was picking up on the complaints of physicians) that statute appeared to affect not only D&X's, but also a broad range of other abortion procedures.
Justice O'Connor and the majority made clear that this vagueness placed abortion providers in an impossible position. As a result, it also places an unconstitutional burden on a woman's right to choose.
Like the Nebraska law the Court struck down in Stenberg, the federal law also appears to sweep broadly in the procedures it bans. It displays the very same vagueness problem. And thus, it is unconstitutional for the very same reason.
CNN.com - Assessing the new anti-'partial-birth' abortion legislation - Oct. 31, 2003
Opponents argue it will subject doctors to jail time and fines for utilizing a range of procedures that might be the safest and most appropriate for a particular woman in a particular situation.
Viasat Internet Service Providers Near Me
Page not found – National Organization for Women
Reproductive Freedom | American Civil Liberties Union
buz writes:
as I understand the bill abortion pba can be performed if mother's life is at risk but not necessarily if her health is at risk
This is one of the reasons that this bill is unconstitutional. Versions of it have been struck down in the past for this very reason. Since when does the federal government have the right to place bans on the safest, best care a doctor can offer a patient?
Bush himself has stated that this ban is because of his fundamentalist worldview:
bush writes:
the right to life "cannot be granted or denied by government because it does not come from government. It comes from the creator of life."
------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 7:10 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 8:05 PM Asgara has not replied
 Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 8:17 PM Asgara has not replied
 Message 42 by Prozacman, posted 11-09-2003 2:14 PM Asgara has not replied

joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 172 (65208)
11-08-2003 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Asgara
11-08-2003 8:00 PM


What strikes me is the fact that a disagreement on the Abortion issue comes up, abortion is in fact murder, is it not? Rare situations such as the one talked about (if baby born mother dies) are very difficult to voice an opinion on.
------------------
This is Prophecyexclaimed, seem to have forgotten my password...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 8:00 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NosyNed, posted 11-08-2003 8:08 PM joshua221 has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 172 (65209)
11-08-2003 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
11-08-2003 8:05 PM


Abortion is not legally murder. That is the heart of the arguement. Attempts to use a religious point of view to change the legal definitions involved. A fertilized single cell is not currently defined as a human being. Murder is a specific form of killing a human being. Therefore abortion is not currently defined as being murder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 8:05 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 8:27 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 58 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-10-2003 3:29 PM NosyNed has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 12 of 172 (65210)
11-08-2003 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
11-08-2003 3:21 PM


I find it pretty odd that they're all smirking like someone just offstage had just farted loudly.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2003 3:21 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 11-08-2003 8:21 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 18 by Zhimbo, posted 11-08-2003 8:49 PM Coragyps has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 13 of 172 (65213)
11-08-2003 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by joshua221
11-08-2003 7:56 PM


Iron Man / Prophecyexclaimed:
There is a password recovery method in the "Forums Help" pull down menu (there does not seem to be a way for me to supply a direct link).
You need to enter your e-mail address there, and your password will be e-mailed to you, at that address.
It would probably be best that you continue with your original name.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 7:56 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 8:49 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 172 (65214)
11-08-2003 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Asgara
11-08-2003 8:00 PM


quote:
Since when does the federal government have the right to place bans on the safest, best care a doctor can offer a patient?
When that care involves the horrible brutal torture death of another fully developed, body, soul, brain and all human being 3/4 of a year old which that mother has brought to be.
The framers of the Constitution would agree with me here, hands down, Asgara. They framed the Constitution to protect all of humanity, including the little children, regardless of status.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Asgara, posted 11-08-2003 8:00 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by nator, posted 11-10-2003 8:29 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 172 (65216)
11-08-2003 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coragyps
11-08-2003 8:10 PM


quote:
I find it pretty odd that they're all smirking like someone just offstage had just farted loudly.....
No, noble men smile when good is done and their action saves the little helpless children, defenseless to save themselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Coragyps, posted 11-08-2003 8:10 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by joshua221, posted 11-08-2003 8:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 55 by nator, posted 11-10-2003 8:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024