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Author Topic:   Immortality
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 22 (37285)
04-18-2003 2:40 PM


Does anyone know of any good sites/organisations that have as their main focus, immortality? By this I mean physical immortality and the postponement of life through science. (not religious institutions)

I personally am unable to come to terms with the concept of non-existence after death, it is to me, a fate worse than Hell.

Also are there any thoughts on this?

Gzus

[This message has been edited by Gzus, 04-18-2003]


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 04-18-2003 2:53 PM Gzus has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18482
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2 of 22 (37287)
04-18-2003 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Gzus
04-18-2003 2:40 PM


I've come to think of death as the end of thought and find it terrifying yet inescapable. Though I believe in God, I do not believe in the immortality of the soul. I believe the universe has a purpose but that we're not in a position, at least at present, to know what that purpose is. I think it is possible, though I couldn't assign it a likelihood, that we play little or no role in that purpose.

Interestingly, this perspective *does* have an impact on how I conduct my life. In another week or so I enter the hospital for elective surgery to hopefully better my quality of life. If I believed in an afterlife I might not be doing this. I just hope this doesn't end up Optional.

Anyway, I'll be offline from April 28th, and I'll return as soon as I'm able, hopefully less than a week. In the meantime you'll be in the excellent hands of admins Adminnemooseus, AdminTC, Adminaquility and AdminPamboli.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 2:40 PM Gzus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 3:10 PM Percy has not yet responded

    
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 22 (37289)
04-18-2003 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Percy
04-18-2003 2:53 PM


Terrifying, yes, in fact I find it so soul destroying that i would much rather spend an eternity in the fiery recesses of Hell than have my existence stolen from me. To cease to exist all together is to have everything that you have ever thought or felt made meaningless.

People might say, 'but others will remember you'. But what use is that if I am unable to experience that comfort? We live quite pathetic and inevitably doomed lives, spent in anticipation of our eventual demise. Some may say there is an afterlife, I would prefer not to subscribe to such fanciful notions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 04-18-2003 2:53 PM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by John, posted 04-18-2003 3:15 PM Gzus has responded
 Message 8 by nator, posted 04-19-2003 10:16 AM Gzus has responded
 Message 13 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-21-2003 3:49 PM Gzus has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 22 (37290)
04-18-2003 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Gzus
04-18-2003 3:10 PM


quote:
Terrifying, yes, in fact I find it so soul destroying that i would much rather spend an eternity in the fiery recesses of Hell than have my existence stolen from me.

Yeah, your existence may be stolen, but you'll never know it.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 3:10 PM Gzus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 3:23 PM John has not yet responded
 Message 7 by John, posted 04-18-2003 11:18 PM John has not yet responded

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 22 (37291)
04-18-2003 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
04-18-2003 3:15 PM


No one ever complained about being dead right? Terrifying to the living shall we say.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by John, posted 04-18-2003 3:15 PM John has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Coragyps, posted 04-18-2003 4:13 PM Gzus has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5389
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 6 of 22 (37294)
04-18-2003 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Gzus
04-18-2003 3:23 PM


You might take a little comfort, Gzus, from this thought, one of Mark Twain's I think: "I never much minded not existing before I was born."

I was as terrified of nothingness as you describe as a young man, but it doesn't bother me much anymore. Living forever to watch all your children, grandchildren, and friends die is a much scarier concept.


This message is a reply to:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 22 (37305)
04-18-2003 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
04-18-2003 3:15 PM


Strangely enough, I used to be afraid of eternity. It just sounded awful to me.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


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 Message 4 by John, posted 04-18-2003 3:15 PM John has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 22 (37317)
04-19-2003 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Gzus
04-18-2003 3:10 PM


quote:
Terrifying, yes, in fact I find it so soul destroying that i would much rather spend an eternity in the fiery recesses of Hell than have my existence stolen from me. To cease to exist all together is to have everything that you have ever thought or felt made meaningless.

People might say, 'but others will remember you'. But what use is that if I am unable to experience that comfort? We live quite pathetic and inevitably doomed lives, spent in anticipation of our eventual demise. Some may say there is an afterlife, I would prefer not to subscribe to such fanciful notions.


Wow, you do have problems, don't you?

As an Agnostic, I don't seem to have such problems. I don't know, I don't think there's any way of knowing, so there's no use in tying myself up in knots about it.

Maybe it would help if you made sure to have as positive an impact as you can while you are here on earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 3:10 PM Gzus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Gzus, posted 04-19-2003 2:21 PM nator has responded

    
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 22 (37336)
04-19-2003 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
04-19-2003 10:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
Wow, you do have problems, don't you?

Admittedly yes. It's just that i find the concept of non-existence so incomprehensible that it scares the hell out of me. I just can't imagine not existing [quite an absurd exercise, i know]. I keep on telling myself, it doesn't really matter, but there's this little voice in the back of my head saying 'NOOOooooo! I want to LIVE! I don't want to die!' It really is that simple, I want to live forever. I think we all feel this to some extent.

quote:

Maybe it would help if you made sure to have as positive an impact as you can while you are here on earth.

The problem with this, I find, is that 'earth' and the reality that I perceive only has meaning if 'I' am around to perceive it, since my view of the universe is unique and special just as any other's. If i am no longer, then I will not experience the comfort of knowing that I have made a positive impact on the world that I have perceived.

[This message has been edited by Gzus, 04-19-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 04-19-2003 10:16 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by compmage, posted 04-19-2003 5:51 PM Gzus has responded
 Message 11 by nator, posted 04-20-2003 8:55 AM Gzus has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Peter, posted 04-30-2003 8:35 AM Gzus has responded

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 3317 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 10 of 22 (37349)
04-19-2003 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Gzus
04-19-2003 2:21 PM


Gzus writes:

I keep on telling myself, it doesn't really matter, but there's this little voice in the back of my head saying 'NOOOooooo! I want to LIVE! I don't want to die!' It really is that simple, I want to live forever. I think we all feel this to some extent.

Personally I don't really want to die, although I don't think I would want to live forever either, there are just so many things you can do. However I wouldn't object to living a long full live.

I don't have your fear of death but that might just be because I am still young enough to have more years ahead of me than behind.

------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Gzus, posted 04-19-2003 2:21 PM Gzus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Gzus, posted 04-20-2003 5:26 PM compmage has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 22 (37382)
04-20-2003 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Gzus
04-19-2003 2:21 PM


quote:
Admittedly yes. It's just that i find the concept of non-existence so incomprehensible that it scares the hell out of me. I just can't imagine not existing [quite an absurd exercise, i know]. I keep on telling myself, it doesn't really matter, but there's this little voice in the back of my head saying 'NOOOooooo! I want to LIVE! I don't want to die!' It really is that simple, I want to live forever. I think we all feel this to some extent.

Of course we all feel scared in this way. We are built and wired to want to live, and to reproduce.

I actually don't want to live forever, though.

quote:
The problem with this, I find, is that 'earth' and the reality that I perceive only has meaning if 'I' am around to perceive it, since my view of the universe is unique and special just as any other's. If i am no longer, then I will not experience the comfort of knowing that I have made a positive impact on the world that I have perceived.

Technically, since you can only perceive the Earth through your unique perspective, you can never actually know how others perceive your impact on them, since you can never, by definition, know anything outside your own perception.

If I've got it right, that is one self-absorbed phnilosophy of existence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Gzus, posted 04-19-2003 2:21 PM Gzus has not yet responded

    
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 22 (37404)
04-20-2003 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by compmage
04-19-2003 5:51 PM


quote:
Personally I don't really want to die, although I don't think I would want to live forever either

Do you ever think there will be a time when you will say 'ok, i've had enough now, I no longer want to exist'?

My fear of death is incomparable to any other emotion that I have felt. But I am unable to pin down exactly what the cause of that fear is. Perhaps it is subconscious, i don't know. I want to live, but why? Why is existence so important to me? My mind boggles when trying to answer this question. Perhaps it is because the only reason that i do things is so that i will be able to experience their consequences. whatever the cause, the fear manifests itself as an inner scream, a childlike plea and a desperate urge. Perhaps if i can find the cause, then i can overcome the urge.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by compmage, posted 04-19-2003 5:51 PM compmage has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by compmage, posted 04-21-2003 4:39 PM Gzus has not yet responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 22 (37462)
04-21-2003 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Gzus
04-18-2003 3:10 PM


quote:
To cease to exist all together is to have everything that you have ever thought or felt made meaningless.

Why is this necessarily the case? To me, the impending end of life is the only thing that gives anything meaning. Knowing that life is finite, at least to me, gives the time we have a heightened sense of importance. Better make the most of it and do right by each other while we're here, you know? Because there won't be time later.

------------------
-----------
Dan Carroll


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Gzus, posted 04-18-2003 3:10 PM Gzus has not yet responded

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 3317 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 14 of 22 (37466)
04-21-2003 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Gzus
04-20-2003 5:26 PM


Gzus writes:

Do you ever think there will be a time when you will say 'ok, i've had enough now, I no longer want to exist'?

Yes. I can imagine that after x thousand or million years life could get very boring. At that point I would want to die.

Gzus writes:

My fear of death is incomparable to any other emotion that I have felt. But I am unable to pin down exactly what the cause of that fear is. Perhaps it is subconscious, i don't know. I want to live, but why? Why is existence so important to me? My mind boggles when trying to answer this question. Perhaps it is because the only reason that i do things is so that i will be able to experience their consequences. whatever the cause, the fear manifests itself as an inner scream, a childlike plea and a desperate urge. Perhaps if i can find the cause, then i can overcome the urge.

I don't know if I can help you with that. As I said, I don't want to die but I don't fear death. There are many things that I would like to do, things I want to see. Most of them will more than likely never happen in my lifetime, if at all and there isn't nearly enough time in one persons life to experiance or do most of the rest.

That being said, I have faced death more than once and in those moments it was regret for things not yet done and not fear of death that filled my mind.

------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Gzus, posted 04-20-2003 5:26 PM Gzus has not yet responded

    
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 22 (37807)
04-24-2003 7:26 AM


Well, in conclusion, perhaps yes, after x million years i might very well say , 'ok time to die now', but i don't have the luxury of that decision. At the end of the day, i want to be able to choose when i die, knowing at every moment that i can either continue living or stop. Part of my fear, i think, is the unpredictability and inevitability of death's coming.
  
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