Atheists have less reason to continue living?

This thread is a resonponse to something Buz brought up in the thread Atheistic Preacher?. The thread was getting a little off topic, so I thought I'd move the discussion to a new thread.Buzz said (Emphasis mine)Now the topic I want to discuss is whether or not atheists have more reasons to want to die than christians? This doesn't just have to include suicide, but a basic wish for this life to end.As far as I can tell, christians have no more reason to want to continue living than atheists do. Christians believe in an afterlife that is meant to be superior to this life. When a loved one dies it is common to say things like "don't be sad, they've gone to a better place" etc. In fact it could be argued that there are plenty of reasons why a christian would want to stop fighting for this life completely. Not necessarily suicide, but not trying so hide to dodge that bus that is coming straight for you, or not clinging so desperately to that ledge when you slip etc. Afterall, you'll end up in a better place afterwards.Obviously I don't think that christians want to die, but what reason would a christian have to continue living that only a christian could have? If a christian wants to continue living due to love of life (their family, friends, experiences etc), then as an atheist all of those reasons are accessible to me.This message has been edited by happy_atheist, 11-01-2004 01:19 PM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

There's no such thing as a logical atheistic defense of such things as any form of personal morality......love of any sort......any possible meaning for existance is stripped away by logic when you make the presumption that there is no God.Now, does this mean atheists desire death? Probably not, since the only thing more terrifying than pointless existance is non-existance. So, atheists, after hard logical deduction based on their presumptions, must accept the fact that there lives will be pointless for a short ammount of time and then they'll cease to exist.I echo Buzzsaw's sentiment as to why anyone would want to spend their time trying to spread the gospel of hopelessness........

Quoth Rusty,

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any possible meaning for existance is stripped away by logic when you make the presumption that there is no God.

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I'd say it's just the opposite. Only if you make the assumption that this life is all there is, do you understand the urgency of living this life to the fullest. If this isn't just the warm-up for the big pie-party in the Beyond, then we can truly feel the need to gain inspiration and fulfillment in our time on Earth. The suffering of the innocent (as well as any other injustice) becomes more acutely tragic when you can't console yourself with the fantasy of reward in the afterlife. And your conscience seeks the forgiveness of those you've wronged when your sins aren't washed away by rituals.The meaning of this life is very important to those of us with no God, make no mistake about it.regards,
Esteban Hambre

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There's no such thing as a logical atheistic defense of such things as any form of personal morality......love of any sort......any possible meaning for existance is stripped away by logic when you make the presumption that there is no God.

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Who says that love and morality are logical? Why can't they just be part of our existence in the same way the consciousness and sapience are part of our existence? Love and morality can be looked at as irrational, and yet be embraced by an atheist. Perhaps you are confusing your own worldview with others. Perhaps it is you that would lack a reason for existing if God did not exist? Why do you project this feeling on others?

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Now, does this mean atheists desire death? Probably not, since the only thing more terrifying than pointless existance is non-existance. So, atheists, after hard logical deduction based on their presumptions, must accept the fact that there lives will be pointless for a short ammount of time and then they'll cease to exist.

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What is so terrifying about receiving enjoyment from helping your fellow man? What is so terrible about being in love, having children, and learning about your world? It would seem to me that an atheist would enjoy life more because they know that this life is all there is. For a christian, they may not enjoy this life as much thinking that a better eternity waits for them.

Ok, Rusty here are two statments show me the logic which strips them away.1) There is no God.
2) My personal morality is derived from what is required to keep the society in which I live and benefit from working. This is so deeply ingrained in me by both my upbringing and, perhaps, the evolutionary results of selecting those individuals who did integrate successfully that I carry it as a deep part of what makes me what I am.Now what is the logic which defeats the reasoning in the second statment by using the first statement? Note it has to both defeat the second statment "stripped away by logic" by using the first "when you make the presumption that there is no God".This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-01-2004 02:26 PM

As always, this is exactly why I make sure to kill at least three orphans a day with a butcher's knife, and then have sex with the stab wounds.I mean... there's no God. So why wouldn't I? What can I say, guy. Not all of us are so lacking in imagination as to not be able to come up with a purpose for our own lives all on our own.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

What life? You don't even exist.......you're just an illusion caused by extremely complex brain processes........and what fullness is there in the knowledge that anything you could possibly do would be pointless? What tragedy? There is no tragedy. Tragedy is just the way your non-existant self interprets certain meaningless events. What wrongs? There are no wrongs........just illusions called pain and pleasure. Then you're not being intellectually honest.

What life? You don't even exist.......you're just an illusion caused by extremely complex brain processes........and what fullness is there in the knowledge that anything you could possibly do would be pointless? What tragedy? There is no tragedy. Tragedy is just the way your non-existant self interprets certain meaningless events. What wrongs? There are no wrongs........just illusions called pain and pleasure. Then you're not being intellectually honest.

It's called "game theory." It explains how members of a community stand to gain more by working together than by working for their own selfish ends. Of course, it also predicts that, in a situation where people are working together, a few people can get personal gains by "cheating".And surprise! That's exactly what we see - cheaters.So, not only does atheism have an explanation for why societies invent morals, it has an explanation for why people abandon them when they know they won't get caught. Short compared to what? It's all the life I'll ever have. Why not make it count?

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why anyone would want to spend their time trying to spread the gospel of hopelessness........

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I have never noticed atheists spreading any such "gospel."What hope does Christianity spread? Hope of what?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

You're being sarcastic, but, fact of the matter is, apart from "fear of reprisal", you can't give a logical answer to your own question.

Sure I can. It holds no appeal to me.A combination of the way in which I was raised by my parents, the way in which I was raised in society, and my own personal introspection have created a moral structure in my own mind. Perhaps it is only chemical reactions, but it's still there when I think, and has a profound effect on me. And according to this moral structure I have developed, killing people and having sex with corpses is bad.Your lack of imagination is your business, guy. Don't go projecting it on us.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

This is true....more than true, as this is probably the category most atheists fall under.This is also a case of atheists being intellectually dishonest with themselves.......

But many other forms of evil do...... But, as you said, these are just chemical reactions......backed by no more logic than an agoraphobic who's afraid to go outside. Or someone with obsessive compulsion who washes their hands for an hour.