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Author
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Topic: Which ten commandments do you follow?
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 1 of 53 (147077)
10-03-2004 10:43 PM
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Of the two different sets of commandments in the bible which one is that which must not be broken and which one do believers in the inerrancy of the bible follow? This is the one that Moses first brought to the people who made the golden calf.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; Exd 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exd 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exd 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exd 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exd 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. Exd 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Exd 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exd 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. This is the second copy that god supposedly made to replace it.
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God: Exd 34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and [one] call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; Exd 34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. Exd 34:17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods. Exd 34:18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt. Exd 34:19 All that openeth the matrix [is] mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, [whether] ox or sheep, [that is male]. Exd 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem [him] not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. Exd 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. Exd 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. Exd 34:23 Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel. Exd 34:24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year. Exd 34:25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. Exd 34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. Perhaps there was typo in god's office?
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AdminNosy
Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: 11-11-2003
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Message 2 of 53 (147108)
10-04-2004 2:42 AM
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 3 of 53 (147128)
10-04-2004 3:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-03-2004 10:43 PM
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well, simply put, the second set are the ten commandments, not the first. the bible calls the second set "the ten commandments" but doesn't call the first set anything. the first set is spoken aloud to hebrews en masse (the tradition ten commandments, really numbering a little more than ten). the second is only spoken to moses, and written on the second two stone tablets. what was written on the first two stone tablets is a mystery, but it doesn't seem ot have been the first set of ten commandments. god says he'll make the second two just like the first, but evidently changes his mind and has moses himself carve the new pact on them. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 10-04-2004 02:56 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by sidelined, posted 10-03-2004 10:43 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
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General Nazort
Inactive Member
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What about Deutoronomy 5?
If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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GN Interesting point. The question though remains which do you follow in order to avoid sinful actions? Notice that Exodus 34 says nothing about murder,adultry or covetness.Since the first set were broken without any but Moses knowing what was on them how is it that they remained as the standard that we hear today?Why is there no protest or even token questioning of the change by Moses?
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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deutoronomy seems to be a repeat of the first set in exodus, if i remember. i'll have to check again. but yeah, those too.
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asciikerr
Inactive Member
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Message 7 of 53 (149527)
10-12-2004 9:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-03-2004 10:43 PM
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Just Two...
The Scribes of Jesus' time asked a similar question. Jesus has only 2 commandments for them to follow, if you can keep these then you will essentially be fulfilling the 10 commandments. Much like, if you love your wife with all your heart, you don't have to really worry about adultery or anything else. When you love, these things don't come into play. Mark 12:28-31 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.'This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no other commandment greater than these." Cheers!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by sidelined, posted 10-03-2004 10:43 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by Phat, posted 10-13-2004 2:50 AM | | asciikerr has not replied | | | Message 9 by Chuck Diesel, posted 10-15-2004 4:39 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 8 of 53 (149588)
10-13-2004 2:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 7 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 9:36 PM
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Re: Just Two...
I could not have said it better myself! 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 9:36 PM | | asciikerr has not replied |
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Chuck Diesel
Inactive Member
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Message 9 of 53 (150171)
10-15-2004 4:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 9:36 PM
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Re: Just Two...
asciikerr writes: The Scribes of Jesus' time asked a similar question. Jesus has only 2 commandments for them to follow, if you can keep these then you will essentially be fulfilling the 10 commandments. Posted 10-12-2004 in "Does God Have Free Will?" Forum
asciikerr writes: You need to quit looking at Good or Evil and start looking at Him as a JUDGE! He is the Final Authority, He Judges and He also Executes. Good, Bad or indifferent...He "Chooses" to Punish those that violate His Commandments. He ordered Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice...Evil? Abraham didn't think so. He fried Sodom & Gommorah for their Sins, Evil? Certainly not...Just God passing Judgement according to His Righteous Holy Standards. Asciikerr, not only have you contradicted yourself, but you've still dodged the question as to which commandments to follow. Common sense dictates that in the first quote you hold only 2 commandments (those given by jesus) as the only two one should need to follow, and in the second quote you hold the OT commandments as the authority. By the way, if it is the second set of commandments that one is obligated to follow, then why does an all knowing, all powerful, perfectly good being put aside all other moral questions we've held throughout the ages (such as abortion, euthanasia, women's rights, stem cell research, etc) to tell us that it is wrong to boil a baby goat in it's mothers milk (commandment ten of the second set)? Also, scribes of Jesus' time? Who were they and how do you know they 'asked a similar question'? Please mention Flavious Josephus...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 9:36 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by Phat, posted 10-15-2004 5:04 PM | | Chuck Diesel has not replied | | | Message 11 by asciikerr, posted 10-18-2004 5:41 PM | | Chuck Diesel has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Re: Just Two...
asciikerr writes: You need to quit looking at Good or Evil and start looking at Him as a JUDGE! He is the Final Authority, He Judges and He also Executes. Good, Bad or indifferent...He "Chooses" to Punish those that violate His Commandments. He ordered Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice...Evil? Abraham didn't think so. He fried Sodom & Gommorah for their Sins, Evil? Certainly not...Just God passing Judgement according to His Righteous Holy Standards. Chuck writes: Asciikerr, not only have you contradicted yourself, but you've still dodged the question as to which commandments to follow. Common sense dictates that in the first quote you hold only 2 commandments (those given by jesus) as the only two one should need to follow, and in the second quote you hold the OT commandments as the authority. By the way, if it is the second set of commandments that one is obligated to follow, then why does an all knowing, all powerful, perfectly good being put aside all other moral questions we've held throughout the ages (such as abortion, euthanasia, women's rights, stem cell research, etc) to tell us that it is wrong to boil a baby goat in it's mothers milk (commandment ten of the second set)? Following the BIG TWO means loving God with ALL your Heart, Soul, Mind, and Strength. Abraham obeyed and kept his son. If Abraham had thought of God as evil, that would mean that He did not trust God, nor love Him fully. God commands us to trust HIM above everything. As for Sodam, the people were very unloving, and obviously idolized each other. His standards can always be questioned, but let us use logic to question them. WE are not God. There is always a source smarter and wiser than us. The disagreement amongst ourselves is merely the identity of this source. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-15-2004 04:06 PM This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-15-2004 04:07 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by Chuck Diesel, posted 10-15-2004 4:39 PM | | Chuck Diesel has not replied |
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asciikerr
Inactive Member
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Laws & Commandments
Why Do we have the 10 Commandments? 1. The Law produced condemnation, it was a mirror to show us how dirty (sinful) we really are. A constant reminder if you will, no wonder they want to remove it from all areas huh!? Does anybody meet up to its standards? 2. Because we are unable to keep the 10 commandments, we are destined for eternal damnation. That shows us just how badly we rely on God's Grace & Mercy. 3. The Law also points us to Christ Jesus, there is no other way to be saved from Hell. So its only through Christ Jesus that we have Salvation, and thus Galations 3:24-26 teaches us that the Law is our Schoolmaster/Tutor, it served to bring us to CHRIST, BUT AFTER FAITH...WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR (10 Commandments). Galatians 3:24-26 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. WE HAVE BEEN FREED FROM THE LAW THROUGH CHRIST. Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The LAW doesn't save us, it condemns us...its a reminder to show us just how much we need Jesus. If we could follow the Letter of the Law to the "T" then we wouldn't need Jesus...am I saying we should break the commandments because we are saved by grace? Absolutely not...We keep His commandments because it brings Him Glory, because it is done in a selfless manner. Also, when you follow the commandments (not restrictions) it serves to give your life fullness and abundance. Those that see His laws as restrictions simply don't know what's best for them, can you find fault with His laws? Not dodging the questions, just explaining the reasoning behind it all. The 10 Commandments is considered the Old Covenant, those that haven't accepted Jesus are still bound by it and will ultimately stand before the Great Judgement of God. Those that follow Christ, are no longer bound by it, we don't live by the Law but by Faith in Christ. We also follow His 2 commandments which encompass the 10, if you follow the 2, you won't violate the 10. Hopes that clears things up a bit...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by Chuck Diesel, posted 10-15-2004 4:39 PM | | Chuck Diesel has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 10-18-2004 5:51 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 12 of 53 (150875)
10-18-2004 5:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by asciikerr
10-18-2004 5:41 PM
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A constant reminder if you will, no wonder they want to remove it from all areas huh!? Does anybody meet up to its standards? I don't see how you could, if you wanted to be an American. A number of elements in our Constitution are right out; the First Amendment rather contradicts the message of the First Commandment, don't you think? And isn't coveting the very foundation of a capitalist market?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by asciikerr, posted 10-18-2004 5:41 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by asciikerr, posted 10-18-2004 9:30 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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asciikerr
Inactive Member
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Message 13 of 53 (150954)
10-18-2004 9:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
10-18-2004 5:51 PM
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quote:
I don't see how you could, if you wanted to be an American. A number of elements in our Constitution are right out; the First Amendment rather contradicts the message of the First Commandment, don't you think? And isn't coveting the very foundation of a capitalist market?
I don't see your logic in this, so your saying that being an American & following the 1st Ammendment goes against the 10 Commandments!? What does a Capitalist Market have to do w/the 10 commandments? How would the 1st Ammendment go against the 2 Commandments Jesus gave? Your going off topic here, Coveting is what your not supposed to do. Its having envy that causes problems; Grass being greener on the other side and always trying to outdue the Johnson's. Tell me, can any good come of it!? That is a very materialistic way to live and very sad indeed. If you chase money, than you end up serving money as your form of idoletry If you don't server God, then you've gotz to serve somebody or something $$$.
quote:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I don't see the connection your trying to make here, but if you want to get Patriotic , then check out The Declaration of Independence and its references to God, or you can turn a blind eye to that. You know how these things go... As it stands, the commandments Jesus gave us doesn't conflict w/our Bill of Rights or the sort.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 10-18-2004 5:51 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 10-18-2004 10:18 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 14 of 53 (150967)
10-18-2004 10:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by asciikerr
10-18-2004 9:30 PM
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I don't see your logic in this, so your saying that being an American & following the 1st Ammendment goes against the 10 Commandments!? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. First Commandment: "I am the LORD thy God, thou shalt have no other gods but me. First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an Establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The First Commandment says that nobody can worship any God but God. The First Amendment says that Congress can't prevent anyone from worshiping as they choose, or not at all.
How would the 1st Ammendment go against the 2 Commandments Jesus gave? Oh, it doesn't, but those are different commandments.
Grass being greener on the other side and always trying to outdue the Johnson's. Tell me, can any good come of it!? For the guy that sells the stuff, yeah, a lot of good comes out of it. That's where we get that phrase, "keeping up with the Jones'" - from old TV advertising. They were trying to sell you something, and they were telling you you needed to buy it because the Jones' next door had one, and you needed to keep up with them. Coveting.
That is a very materialistic way to live and very sad indeed. If you chase money, than you end up serving money as your form of idoletry Oh, I agree. Why do you think so many people in our country wind up that way, though?
then check out The Declaration of Independence and its references to God, or you can turn a blind eye to that. Ah, but of course, the Declaration of Independance is not a law. The Constitution is the highest law in the land, and the source of our government.
As it stands, the commandments Jesus gave us doesn't conflict w/our Bill of Rights or the sort. Explain to me how the First Commandment doesn't contradict the First Amendment. This message has been edited by crashfrog, 10-18-2004 09:18 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by asciikerr, posted 10-18-2004 9:30 PM | | asciikerr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by jar, posted 10-18-2004 10:25 PM | | crashfrog has replied | | | Message 22 by asciikerr, posted 10-19-2004 12:43 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 15 of 53 (150968)
10-18-2004 10:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
10-18-2004 10:18 PM
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Explain to me how the First Commandment doesn't contradict the First Amendment. Because the Ten Commandments were given to Jews, to be followed by Jews. The first Amendment is a part of Law applying to behavior of the US Government. It precludes Congress' actions, has nothing to do with personal beliefs.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 10-18-2004 10:18 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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