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Author Topic:   Varieties of Religious Experience
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 1 of 4 (399736)
05-07-2007 5:36 PM


In Phat's thread on Evangelical Support Group I am probably guilty of contributing to a slow, but heated, slide off topic, so I thought it was best to start a new one.
NJ claimed that he has had a religious experience that has "removed all doubt". He was not clear if the experience removed all doubt of God, or if the experience was a validation of his particular doctrinal view. However, his subsequent comments indicate he is referring to his doctrinal beliefs since he claimed religious experiences of other faiths are typically a redirection "towards Him"; which implies toward his own view of God as the one of the bible.
Is there any objective evidence, which indicate that the various examples of Religious Experiences have Christian or Biblical content and themes, that serves as a redirection?
Or more generally when God speaks or moves within reverent sincere individuals to cause a religious experience, is there a common message or theme that could shed light on the nature of God?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Doddy, posted 05-08-2007 9:14 PM iceage has not replied
 Message 4 by Equinox, posted 05-09-2007 12:40 PM iceage has not replied

  
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Message 2 of 4 (399737)
05-07-2007 5:37 PM


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    Doddy
    Member (Idle past 5936 days)
    Posts: 563
    From: Brisbane, Australia
    Joined: 01-04-2007


    Message 3 of 4 (399919)
    05-08-2007 9:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
    05-07-2007 5:36 PM


    iceage writes:
    Or more generally when God speaks or moves within reverent sincere individuals to cause a religious experience, is there a common message or theme that could shed light on the nature of God?
    I don't believe so. It appears to me that most religous experiences are varied within other religions. That is, a Zen Buddhist mystical experience (feeling of tranquility and insight into the nature of self) is very different from that of a an ancient greek woman (sexually attacked by Zeus), which is very different again from those of the Australian Aborigines (visions of your ancestors in the Dreamtime).
    I fail to see how a religious experience could indicate which God(s) is/are correct, if a trickster god or Satan give us much the same picture of something else to fool us.

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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by iceage, posted 05-07-2007 5:36 PM iceage has not replied

      
    Equinox
    Member (Idle past 5169 days)
    Posts: 329
    From: Michigan
    Joined: 08-18-2006


    Message 4 of 4 (399974)
    05-09-2007 12:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
    05-07-2007 5:36 PM


    On topic - move
    Here is the part of a previous post, which I've moved here so as to keep both threads on topic. NJ, would you like to continue the "experience" part of the discussion on this experience thread, and leave the KJV part on the other thread?
    Here it is:
    **********************************************************
    ________________________________________
    OK, then what you are saying your experience proves makes sense. Please do not extend it, as I’ve so often seen done, to erase doubt that
    I'm merely speaking from personal experience. Others have basically said that my experience means nothing-- that I probably had a moment of delusion, or what have you.
    How annoying is it for somebody to critique a personal experience of someone else?
    I’m not saying you were delusional - I too have had transcendent experiences, as have millions of others. I’m merely pointing out that your transcendent experience is worthwhile in proving to you that there is a God, but not useful in proving to you that the KJV Bible is inerrant, unless that’s what God said to you. Your experience is certainly not proof in proving much outside yourself anyway. I so often see people bring up a divine experience just of “god”, and then extend it to say it proves their religion over that of others. Do we agree that there is a difference there?
    People of all faiths use non-doctrinal encounters with God to affirm their whole system of belief. Even I believe in God, depending on how you define that term.
    I'm not going to criticize or minimize anyone's experience with God. I believe that God comes to people of other faiths to redirect them. I believe people who have no doctrinal understanding of God, have moments with Him to goad us towards Him.
    I’m not minimizing anyone’s experience, and I’m not minimizing God. OK, so you are saying that these millions of people have millions of experiences that strengthen their non-Christian faiths, and this is all because the Christian God is trying to get them to become Christian? That’s a lot worse than saying that God is just “pretty good” - it’s saying that God is incompetent. Not to mention how much you are denigrating other’s belief systems.
    I was asking how you keep them from being changed over time in your mind, as happens normally with many human memories. This is important because if your ideas about what God said change in the wrong way, you could end up in Hell for all eternity.
    Look, you are entitled to come up with whatever excuses you want or assign for me whatever deficiencies you want me to have.
    I’m not blaming you for any deficiencies. You are human, just as I. I was pointing out that you are attributing super-human memory to yourself. Everyone (including myself), as long as they are human, will misremember things. I mean, I guess it's a deficiency that you can't leap tall buildings or run faster than a speeding bullet, but I can't either.
    Have a good day-
    -Equinox

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by iceage, posted 05-07-2007 5:36 PM iceage has not replied

      
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