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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 3627
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 455 (117900)
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


In another thread, PC said:
I have a feeling that we are approaching the end-times and Armageddon is not long in coming. There is a place in the middle east - Megiddo - or Armageddon. Spooky, isn't it?

I have noticed that there are at least several Christian fundies here that have claimed that the end is near and it might just be around the corner.

Could someone please enlighten me as to when the end-times will come and how you came to that conclusion?

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 455 (117927)
06-23-2004 2:34 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 3 of 455 (117933)
06-23-2004 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


Read the newspapers, Lam. By evangelical definition, any headline is automatically a fullfilled prophecy. Every significant historical event has been used as proof that the prophecies of Revelations were coming to pass at that time.

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iftikhar
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 455 (117959)
06-23-2004 3:45 PM


guess!
halo there
i guess there are signs in both Christianity and Islam bout when there will be the end. like when there may be too much advancement but still cruelity, wars like of stone era.
but still billions of them are to come i guess...
Peace

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 455 (117967)
06-23-2004 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


quote:
have noticed that there are at least several christian fundies here that have claimed that the end is near and it might just be around the corner.

I have noticed that christians have been claiming the near times of armageddon for 1,967 years. This isn't a peculiarity of our times, but a continuation of the same claim from previous generations. Given the vague prophecies given in the bible about the end times, I can understand why such claims occur in every generation. However, "Cry Wolf" does start to come to mind.


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PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 5503 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 6 of 455 (117996)
06-23-2004 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Loudmouth
06-23-2004 4:08 PM


no vagueness
regarding 'end-times' in the bible. In fact, the term 'big bang' comes to mind when I look at it.
See Revelation 15 and 16 - plagues, for starters. I understand that Revelation is difficult to read and understand. Compare with Exodus 9. Luke 21:25, 26, ..... there will be wars and rumors of wars......and perilous times shall come. Perhaps things are not so perilous yet...or are they?
Please understand that every generation since Christ's sojourn on this planet has indulged in the blessed hope of his soon return. But of that time and hour no one is informed. Only the Father knows when exactly that will be. Are you ready?


Cactus and Scrub
and yellow grass

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 455 (118013)
06-23-2004 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by PecosGeorge
06-23-2004 5:08 PM


Re: no vagueness
quote:
See Revelation 15 and 16 - plagues, for starters.

Take the plague. Killed 25% of the European and Asian population. No return of the Christ. Take 25 million dead due to influenza right after WWI, no return.

quote:
Compare with Exodus 9. Luke 21:25, 26, ..... there will be wars and rumors of wars......and perilous times shall come.

Name one century out of the last 20 that haven't had a war. Name one century where the words "perilous times" hasn't been ascribed to then current times.

This is why, in my view, Revelations and the Bible in general is impossible to use to predict the prophesised end times. Every generation can adapt their current situation to fit the prophesies, or at least make the justification that the end times are very near. The four horsemen of the apocalypse seem to visit on a pretty consistent basis throughout history. The only problem is that they come and go without the predictions born out.

Here is a better question. If I could fit conditions found 300 years ago to fit the prophesies found in Revelations, could I then claim that the author of Revelations (John) is a false prophet? This is the danger in continually applying current events to predict the nearness of the end times, as has been shown by previous generations.


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jar
Member
Posts: 32924
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 8 of 455 (118017)
06-23-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Loudmouth
06-23-2004 5:49 PM


Re: no vagueness
One clear fact about Biblical prophesies is that for over 5000 years, every time one has been proven wrong, divine re-interpretation has shown that it referred to something else entirely anyway.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 3627
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 9 of 455 (118020)
06-23-2004 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
06-23-2004 5:57 PM


Re: no vagueness
Reminds me of a story relating to the oracle at delphi. A king of a newly established empire (can't remember which one) wanted to invade the Persian Empire. Before the invasion, he went to the oracle to ask for advice. The oracle said something along the line of "if you invade Persia, a great empire will fall." The king went back to his army with a big smile on his face.

It turned out that the invasion was a complete failure and the Persians took the opportunity to invade his country. While fighting for his country's survival, he sent a messenger to the oracle at delphi to ask why she said Persia was going to fall. The oracle's priest answered, "the oracle really meant your empire, not Persia."

So you see, the prophecies in the past had been so vague that nobody knows what the hell they mean and anybody could interpret them anyway he wanted to. If he got it wrong, well, it's his fault for misinterpreting the prophecy. If he got it right, well, Halleluiah!

For once, I'd like to see an actual date, like when the next 8.0 earthquake is going to take place.


The Laminator


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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 455 (118021)
06-23-2004 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
06-23-2004 5:57 PM


Re: no vagueness
quote:
One clear fact about Biblical prophesies is that for over 5000 years, every time one has been proven wrong, divine re-interpretation has shown that it referred to something else entirely anyway.

And not one prophesy in the bible has yet to PREDICT an event. If the prophesies are so obvious, then the proponents of these prophesies should be able to predict future happenings. Instead, all we get is post hoc fulfillments that are tenuous at best.

Added in Edit: And what Lam said, too.

This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 06-23-2004 05:15 PM


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jar
Member
Posts: 32924
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 11 of 455 (118026)
06-23-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 6:11 PM


Re: no vagueness
Lam writes:

For once, I'd like to see an actual date, like when the next 8.0 earthquake is going to take place.

Doubt it will be 8.0 but reading John (or Don Marquis, I can't remember which) says that between July 1 and September 5th, 2004 there will be a 6.4+ earthquake centered near Palm Springs.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4697
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 455 (118034)
06-23-2004 6:34 PM


Loudmouth and closed ears
You guys are missing the link. You see, prophecies are supposed to be a mystery. They are not there to miff you, or be vague. When Christ says "many prophets have desired to see what you have seen", just exactly how large was christianity? Say?...It was tiny. So then, Christ said this knowing that only he and the prophet knew what was happening. Even the apostles had to have the parables interpreted remember, and didn't know what was happening at the time. People could discern the "face of the sky", but not "the times". You see, the purpose of prophecy isn't to please the man doing the "prophecy experiment". It is to show what God intends to do. Now it is also written, "A day to the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day". Again, it is written that "scoffers" will say "where is he" in the latter days.

You see, it is no surprise that christians have said, "he's coming" for two thousand years. Ofcourse they have, they were told to "watch". And so we watch. And many will desire to say "these are the last days", but few will say "I know the hour". Don't be so sensitive that we "watch" and even suggest it is the last days. We know little, we are neither the prophet nor the Christ.

Have the Jews ever said, "blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord"? I trow not, for they probably dare not mention his name in their own house. So you can't really say, "the christians said this would happen, and it didn't, so the bible's wrong". That's not logic. Logic is, that the christian was wrong. Do you hear me Loudmouth?


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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 13 of 455 (118038)
06-23-2004 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Loudmouth
06-23-2004 5:49 PM


Re: no vagueness
A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman. A description of Western Europe in the 14th century. Wars, plagues, famine...if there was going to be the apocalypse, that would have been it.

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almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 455 (118081)
06-23-2004 11:34 PM


The end is not near. Its all the way when the one-world government forms and then a one-world leader comes which is the Anti-christ. And once he makes breaks his peace with Israel. We will be deep deep into tribulation and end time.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8948
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 15 of 455 (118092)
06-23-2004 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Chiroptera
06-23-2004 6:42 PM


Thanks
Another Tuckman book. I wasn't aware of it. I love her writing.

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