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Author Topic:   I have doubt in my religion
my_allegory
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 53 (184100)
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Moved here from [forum=-19]. --Admin
i am an inactive member of jesus christ of latter- day saints.my faith in the church is dying.is there anyone who can testify much about the church? cause i am not at ease talking with the members in our stake.they all seem so plastic and hypocrite.or maybe im just being too critical.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by jt, posted 02-09-2005 1:57 PM my_allegory has not replied
 Message 8 by jar, posted 02-09-2005 3:25 PM my_allegory has not replied
 Message 11 by arachnophilia, posted 02-09-2005 9:42 PM my_allegory has not replied
 Message 12 by nator, posted 02-09-2005 10:18 PM my_allegory has not replied
 Message 13 by TheLiteralist, posted 02-10-2005 7:51 AM my_allegory has not replied
 Message 14 by ohnhai, posted 02-10-2005 8:23 AM my_allegory has replied
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2005 7:32 PM my_allegory has not replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 53 (184105)
02-09-2005 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Have you ever considered atheism?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 02-09-2005 2:57 PM crashfrog has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 602 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 3 of 53 (184108)
02-09-2005 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


It is my personal opinion that the Mormon's ARE a bit plastic. I am probably cynical because of being woken up during the day by Mormon missonaries on the lookout for converts when I was working third shift a few too many times.
If you want to talk to people who have gone through similar experiances with you, there is Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church I will point out that these
are people who have totally lost their faith in Mormonism, so you won't be getting an unbiased viewpoint.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

jt
Member (Idle past 5586 days)
Posts: 239
From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States
Joined: 04-26-2004


Message 4 of 53 (184110)
02-09-2005 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Welcome to the forum!
My faith in the church is dying
The church (i.e. the body of believers) is composed of fallible humans, and will have problems. If the church (building/organization/denomination) you attend does not seem to be genuine, find another -- there are good ones, although sometimes it does take some looking to find one.
Just be careful that you do not confuse faith in God with faith in your church. Just because your church is inadequate doesn't mean God is: don't let a dead church kill you faith.
JT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 5 of 53 (184127)
02-09-2005 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jt
02-09-2005 1:57 PM


The church (i.e. the body of believers) is composed of fallible humans, and will have problems.
An opposing view might be that, since churches are no more or less likely to have problems than any other group of fallible humans, one might come to the conclusion that churches are simply groups of fallible humans, and not actually groups under the blessing of any kind of god.
But I agree with JT in that your increasing knowledge about the nature of humans should be regarded separately from your quest for knowledge about the nature of God. They're not the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 53 (184128)
02-09-2005 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
02-09-2005 1:32 PM


Hey froggie, just becareful who you recruit. The last thing we want is an atheist that has just as much faith in it as a fundie's faith in religion. True atheism come from intellectual journeys. If this guy converts to atheism because of his loss of faith in his religion, it's like converting to buddhism because you no longer believe in Allah.
It might seem like a good idea to recruit this guy, but it will likely to come back and bite you in the arse later on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 02-09-2005 1:32 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 02-09-2005 3:02 PM coffee_addict has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 53 (184134)
02-09-2005 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
02-09-2005 2:57 PM


It might seem like a good idea to recruit this guy
I'm not recruiting, and I take great offense at the suggestion that I am.
But it's not uncommon - in fact, it's the rule - for persons responding to a plea for spiritual guidance from their peers to be told, more or less, "but hey, whatever you do, don't become an atheist." Well, that's bullshit. Atheism is an entirely legitimate position for someone seeking spiritual truth to adopt, and I'm here to present it as such. I don't care what he winds up believing, but I won't allow atheism to be presented as an outcome of spiritual failure, a destination you only wind up at if you don't have the balls for a "real" spiritual journey.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 02-09-2005 2:57 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 02-09-2005 3:29 PM crashfrog has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 53 (184144)
02-09-2005 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


i am an inactive member of jesus christ of latter- day saints.my faith in the church is dying.
A sure sign of capital deprevation. Use more caps in your sentences and all will be restored.
But seriously, it's great that your beliefs are being challenged. It sounds like you're fairly young, I'd guess mid to late teens, and that's a wonderful time to be exploring who you are and what you believe.
is there anyone who can testify much about the church?
Sure, there are several LDS members here, particularly LDSDude. But I hope you'll use this time to explore beyond just LDS.
May I suggest that you take a sabbatical? Take some time and explore some of the other paths that have been taken over the ages. You can start with some of the Eastern Philosophies. Here's a good place to start.
Don't neglect some of the influence that led to Christianity such as the Greek Philosophers. And also explore the Judaic and Islamic parts of the family.
Take your time, there's a whole life ahead of you, and much can be gained no matter where you end up. Explore Atheism, Agnosticism, the various branches of the Christian faith, Hindu and Buddhist, Confucious and Mencius. Study them all. You'll come to the path that works for you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 53 (184145)
02-09-2005 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
02-09-2005 3:02 PM


frog writes:
I'm not recruiting, and I take great offense at the suggestion that I am.
Sorry about that. I take that statement back.
But it's not uncommon - in fact, it's the rule - for persons responding to a plea for spiritual guidance from their peers to be told, more or less, "but hey, whatever you do, don't become an atheist."
That is not what I am saying at all. I am just saying that we should be careful who we give our suggestion to. Again, I believe that it is dangerous to have faith in something just because the faith in another thing has become lacking.
This guy seems to be in an unstable state of mind right now. I think the better thing to do would be to encourage him to ask more questions rather than take another position right away.
Well, that's bullshit. Atheism is an entirely legitimate position for someone seeking spiritual truth to adopt, and I'm here to present it as such. I don't care what he winds up believing, but I won't allow atheism to be presented as an outcome of spiritual failure, a destination you only wind up at if you don't have the balls for a "real" spiritual journey.
And I am trying to prevent that from happening. Why suggest this guy to take your position if chances are that he doesn't know what true atheism is? Again, the last thing I want to see is someone converting to atheism just because he lost faith in his old religion. I see no difference between that and converting from Islam to Buddhism just because the faith in Islam has become weak.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 02-09-2005 3:02 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 02-09-2005 6:47 PM coffee_addict has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 53 (184195)
02-09-2005 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
02-09-2005 3:29 PM


I think the better thing to do would be to encourage him to ask more questions rather than take another position right away.
Which, if you'll look back at my original post, that's exactly what I asked him to do.

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 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 02-09-2005 3:29 PM coffee_addict has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 11 of 53 (184271)
02-09-2005 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


is there anyone who can testify much about the church? cause i am not at ease talking with the members in our stake.they all seem so plastic and hypocrite.
that's kind of sad. i've only been to one lds church, and the member were some of the most down to earth and genuinely nice people i've ever met.
but keep in mind that faith, religion, and church are three different things. you can have faith without a religion, and a religion without a church. just because your church or organization sucks doesn't mean much about god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 53 (184279)
02-09-2005 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


quote:
they all seem so plastic and hypocrite.or maybe im just being too critical.
My best friend from college converted to LDS while we were sharing a dorm room. We were quite close in college and used to goof around, make jokes, and laugh and laugh until we couldn't breathe and tears were streaming down our faces.
After graduation and a few years of the both of us getting on with our lives, we got together again. She was heavily into the LDS experience and didn't have any friends outside of the Church community.
Anyway, during our visit we picked right up with the joking and laughing and the goofing around, just like old times, and she told me that she really missed being like that, and that none of the people she socialized with now ever made the kind of clever observations and witty quips that I did. Nobody she socialized with ever made her laugh so hard she cried anymore.
In retrospect, I think, "Well DUH! They are Midwestern, highly-religious Mormons!" Why on earth did you expect them to be as fun and irreverant as your free-thinking friend (me)?
Individuality in personality and behavior is not particularly well-tolerated in such groups. Neither is questioning authority.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-09-2005 22:19 AM

This message is a reply to:
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TheLiteralist
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 53 (184365)
02-10-2005 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


It is good to search
Hi My Allegory,
I, too, am a Christian, but I do not belong to the LDS church.
Is the fact that the people in your particular congregation seem "plastic" your only problem? Do you have any other doubts, concerns, or questions?
I wish you well.
--TheLit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5152 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 14 of 53 (184366)
02-10-2005 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Read, talk, and learn
Sounds like an excellent time for you to go and learn about other faiths religions and their view points. Now’s the time to buy books or go to library, talk to others of differing faiths, even us Atheists and actually understand the nature of this game of faith.
In time you will either re-affirm your faith in LDS, find another belief system you can believe in or even come to an Atheist understanding. Most of us have been raised in one faith or another from childhood and been taught this is THE TRUTH and this shapes us and our views and thoughts. Most of us will eventually question these assertions and these facts, and that’s when you need to do some good honest reading and learning to ascertain the truth of these claims for your self. It’s not an easy journey and you must have the courage to realise it could lead you anywhere. It could lead you back to LDS , to Islam, Catholic Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto or even a realisation there isn’t a god/s and so on.
The long and short of it is that it’s you that must make this journey. Only you can learn what your personal truth is. Sure listen to others, read books, watch TV, but think and learn, make up your own mind as to the truth.
One last thing. When it comes to the views of others, be it spoken or written down, you must take into account whose views they are and why they are saying them. Read book from all commentators, from all views. You will get wildly contradicting ideas and assertions but hopefully from all of this you should in time be able to clarify what you believe.
Just don’t expect a quick fix.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has replied

Replies to this message:
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my_allegory
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 53 (189996)
03-04-2005 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by ohnhai
02-10-2005 8:23 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
much thanks to those who send their reply to me.actually, i'm not loosing my faith to god.i just dont feel the religion i am in right now can me give accurate answers about god. it only leads to more complicated inquiries about them not about god. i think i will not enter into any kind of religion as of now.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 23 by Monk, posted 03-09-2005 10:33 AM my_allegory has not replied
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