Original Sin

This is the doctrine which dictates that all human beings are born into sin. Growing up in the Episcopal Church my idea was that OS meant simply that children were born into a world of wrongdoing and would inevitably do wrong, or sin, themselves once they reached the age that they were able to make reasoned choices.On that level the doctrine seems harmless enough because it's true. The trouble is that more evangelical faiths have what seems to me a more sinister interpretation - that we are all born sinners and thus never have a true period of innocence. I think it is this view that is consistent with crackpot notions of God's wrath brought to bear on tens if not hundreds of thousands of children in the recent Indian Ocean tsunami, or any other disaster for that matter.The Catholics have a kinder, gentler view unless I'm mistaken (and I could be): I think they see OS as something like the first of what will be many stains on one's soul, a stain inherited from Adam and Eve. I read the article on their website but it seems to ramble and never really gives one a sense of just what the doctrine is.My questions are these: what is original sin, why is it a necessary belief to the Chritian experience and is it, like other sins, washed away by the blood of Jesus? Further, if it is washed away by the blood of Jesus, why is it brought up in the first place? Once a child is old enough to ask Jesus for forgiveness wouldn't the original sin then be washed away?If this topic is promoted my suggestion would be the 'Faith & Belief' Forum.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

As far as I'm aware, the Catholic prespective is that children are born with original sin, and it is washed away once they are baptised.I'm not sure about that so some one correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, my $0.02 is that OS is just another way for Christianity to make its followers feel bad about themselves.The Rockhound

I think that Original Sin plays a major part in a few of the more exclusionary sects of Christianity. It's a mechanism to help sort THEM from US. It's an "All GOD's chillun got Original Sins but only WE got the magic bullet" artifact. It helps them justify internally their exclusionary practices and gives them a certain amount of cover.In most cases it is even explained and justified incorrectly. Many of the strong supporters of the concept of Original Sin point to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit. But while a curse was laid on the two of them (more on Eve than Adam), the reason they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden had nothing to do with that act. So if eating the forbidden fruit was insufficient cause to get thrown out of the Garden of Eden, it's unlikely to have been a sin of such magnitude that it would get passed down generation after generation.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not all Christians are part of an organized attempt to fleece the flock. IMHO, everyone is capable of greed and selfishness, and these traits stand out most in those who preach against them loudest.
If sin was washed away at Baptism and weekly communion alone, why not go party it up on the weekend before Mass? The need for a constant relationship with God arises from an inborn self will which by definition defines original sin. Original sin really means original seperation, or seperation from our origin....our genesis...our Creator.Even though the solution is relationship and obedience to the Spirit, humans have twisted and perverted this obedience into organized religion, manipulation, and control.

Hi Berberry,
Being raised in a Catholic home and being Catholic I feel I can shed insight. Irish Rock hound's comment is right. OS is indeed "inherited" from the Garden of Eden story in the Old testament. Catholics babtize infants for this reason, the infant is born into sin. Babtism removes the stain of original sin and infuses the child with the holy ghost. The ceremony is a sacrement one of seven a Catholic can recieve grace from. The next is the sacrement of first holy communion. This takes place around age 10-13 then person may receive the sacrement of confirmation by a Bishop of the church.
There is also the sacrement of marrige, the sacrement of holy orders, the sacrement of last rites.Original sin is a necessary in the Christian faith I believe because the whole concept of redemption hinges on it. Jesus is the redeemer 'the lamb of God' If Adam and Eve never disobeyed God then what need of a redeemer would we have?This is just my opinion. Original sin is present on all infants except for Mary who was born imaculant, and Jesus. It is also presumed by the Catholic church that Mary did not suffer death but was rather assumed into heaven directley. Hope this give you another point of view. **this is all Catholic teachings and has no basis in fact whatsoever**

From a non-denominational point of view, yes we are born with original sin. But you aren't accountable for it until you reach the age of accountability.For instance, sin entered the world when Adam ate the fruit, not Eve. Eve did not sin *subject to debate, a more accurate interpretation would be she sinned, but did not cause sin to enter the world* because was decieved. Adam knew what he was doing and made the choice to eat the fruit. The same concept applies to kids until they reach "that" age.This message has been edited by Tal, 01-07-2005 03:48 AM

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

May I ask how you came to this conclusion?It is indicated that Eve was deceived, but there was no indication either way for Adam.

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Ge 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

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1 Timothy 2:13,14[/qs]Adam was not decieved, therefore he made the choice to disobey.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

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My questions are these: what is original sin, why is it a necessary belief to the Chritian experience and is it, like other sins, washed away by the blood of Jesus? Further, if it is washed away by the blood of Jesus, why is it brought up in the first place? Once a child is old enough to ask Jesus for forgiveness wouldn't the original sin then be washed away?

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I'll answer from my exposure to Calvinists.Original sin is disobedience of god the father.Its not exactly washed away by Jesus, but Jesus is the tipping point between god acting vengefully toward man as a result of original sin, and adopting newer, kindlier, reconciliatory approach.It's still relevant today becuase "none come to the father except through me". Thus those who maliciously choose not to worhsip jesus revel in original sin.What actually constitutes redemption from OS differes by sect, to the point of having to be "reborn".

Hi Tal,How was Eve decieved when she had the same information about the tree as Adam did?Genesis 3:2,The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.Where was the deception?She obviously knew that she would die if she touched the fruit.Could you clarify for me please?Brian.

I always was taught and assumed that Adam was disobedient rather than deceived. He listened to Eve instead of God. Then, blaming Eve for the decision that he himself chose, both of them got booted.BTW, God never told them not to touch the fruit. Eve added this tidbit. Eves deception was from allowing a snake to put thoughts in her head by speaking words not said.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-07-2005 06:43 AM

Original Sin was (IMO) committed when Adam, at his first instance of opportunity, blamed Eve rather than accepting blame for not having dealt with the issue cooperatively.OS was repeated by the second generation when Cain asked, "Am I my brother's keeper?"Offering lame excuses rather than cooperatively dealing with our humanistic duties is Original Sin repeated.Peace, Abshalom

That's a definition that makes sense to me, Abshalom. I particularly like your statement:

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OS was repeated by the second generation when Cain asked, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

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Pleasant thought though it is, I wonder where in scripture you find justification for it?

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

Dear Barberry:Having been raised Episcopalean in the Mississippi Delta myself, I abandoned all sectarianism long ago in favor of secular humanism. Seems anything else just gets in the way of absolving OS somehow ... or at least muddies the pond when your fishin' for answers.Regards, AbshalomEdit: Oh, and with regard to where I find scriptural verification ... Luke 10, verses 27 through 35.This message has been edited by Abshalom, 01-07-2005 13:03 AM