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Author Topic:   Evangelicals accepting Evolution
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 1 of 15 (397687)
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


M H Schweitzer, K Miller, J Dudley
Many people assume one cannot be a Christian and accept the findings of science about organic evolution. This is especially true when the Christian in question belongs to the subgroup known as 'conservative Christians' or evangelicals.
Many evangelicals do, in fact, become convinced that the evidence for an old earth and for organic evolution is overwhelming. When this happens they often find the experience disorienting. Past indoctrination has told them this position is impossible. They often believe they are alone.
Not so--and a growing number of evangelicals are speaking out on this very point. Their example shows it is entirely possible to live as a Christian in the evangelical tradition while still accepting the clear findings of science.
It would be beneficial to have a thread here where examples of 'evogelicals', or 'continuous creationists', can be spotlighted. As you encounter these individuals please mention them here. Provide links, wherever possible, to their statements and testimonies.
This thread is intended as a resource rather than a debate arena. No links to atheists here, please. None to YECs. This thread exists to call attention to individuals--professional scientists, especially--who acknowledge themselves evangelicals who accept evolution.
To begin, here are three noteworthy examples from recent news reports.
------------------
Mary Higby Schweitzer
(discoverer of T.rex soft tissue fossils)
Discover Magazine: 'Schweitzer's Dangerous Discovery'
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/dinosaur-dna
quote:
...Schweitzer [stands] at the center of a raging cultural controversy, because she is not just a pioneering paleontologist but also an evangelical Christian. [...] But in her religious life, Schweitzer is no more of an ideologue than she is in her scientific career. In both realms, she operates with a simple but powerful consistency: The best way to understand the glory of the world is to open your eyes and take an honest look at what is out there.
Reticent by nature, Schweitzer rarely grants interviews and shies away from making grand pronouncements about her scientific research or her religious faith. Instead of news stories about her stunning findings, she has adorned her office wall with a verse from the book of Jeremiah: "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
[ . . . . ]
To Schweitzer, trying to prove your religious beliefs through empirical evidence is absurd, if not sacrilegious. "If God is who He says He is, He doesn't need us to twist and contort scientific data," she says. "The thing that's most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He's not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies."
Some creationists, noting Schweitzer's evangelical faith, have tried to pressure her into siding with them. "It is high time that the 'Scientific' community comes clean: meaning that the public is going to hold them ACCOUNTABLE when they find out that they have been misled," reads a recent e-mail message Schweitzer received. She has received dozens of similar notes, a few of them outright menacing.
These religious attacks wound her far more than the scientific ones. "It rips my guts out," she says. "These people are claiming to represent the Christ that I love. They're not doing a very good job. It's no wonder that a lot of my colleagues are atheists." She told one zealot, "You know, if the only picture of Christ I had was your attitude towards me, I'd run."
Ironically, the insides of Cretaceous-era dinosaur bones have only deepened Schweitzer's faith. "My God has gotten so much bigger since I've been a scientist," she says. "He doesn't stay in my boxes.'
Keith Miller
ASA: 'Theological Implications of an Evolving Creation'
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1993/PSCF9-93Miller.html
quote:
The creation-evolution debate has sapped vital energy from the Christian community. Instead of building the kingdom of God, it has, I believe, been both destructive to the unity of the body of Christ and a distraction from its God-given mission. That mission is to live as God's image bearers, exercising stewardship over His creation, and proclaiming His message of reconciliation to the world.
In the debate over the proper understanding of the Genesis account, most attention has seemed to focus on the scientific merits of various creation scenarios. What has largely been lacking in these debates is a consideration of the theological implications of these various interpretations for our understanding of the character of God, the relationship of God to His creation, and the relationship of us to the rest of creation. After all, it is to these basic issues that the Genesis account is primarily, if not exclusively, addressed. [1] In addition, much of the resistance to evolutionary cosmologies among evangelical Christians is a perceived conflict with the fundamental doctrines of the faith. For these reasons, I will deal directly with the theological implications of what I prefer to call the continuous creation view. The term "continuous creationist" has been used by both Wilcox and Moltmann as a useful label for a fully theistic view of creation involving a long uninterrupted creative history. [2] According to this view God is continuously active in His creation through the processes that we investigate with our sciences.
Jonathan Dudley
Yale Daily News Column: 'Evangelical Christian believes in evolution'
Page not found - Yale Daily News
quote:
What truths does science reveal about human origins? The evidence for macroevolution is quite strong. From amoebas to humans, proteins just a mutation’s-length away carry out similar molecular processes; structures that function in lower organisms, such as the appendix, have lost their function in higher ones; and speciation is observed when organisms are kept from interbreeding.
How can the scientific truth of macroevolution be reconciled with the biblical story of creation? I think science requires Christians to interpret the creation story differently. Yes, God still created the universe, including all biological life. But God created biological life via the process of evolution.
Faith and Belief, please.
______
Edited by Archer Opterix, : subtitle.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.

Archer
All species are transitional.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by truthlover, posted 04-27-2007 3:28 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 15 (397693)
04-27-2007 9:56 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 3 of 15 (397699)
04-27-2007 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


D R Alexander
Denis R Alexander
Evangelical Alliance (UK): 'Can a Christian believe in evolution?'
Page not found - Evangelical Alliance
quote:
Today when Richard Dawkins recounts how Darwinian evolution enables him to be an ”intellectually fulfilled atheist’, this only reinforces the idea that there must be something deeply anti-Christian about evolution. But the fact that evolutionary theory has been called upon to justify such a wide range of ideologies as communism, capitalism, racism and militarism, some of them mutually exclusive, should alert us to the dangers of extrapolating scientific theories into arenas in which they actually have little or nothing to say.
So is it possible to be a Christian and believe in evolution? Certainly, as long as ”evolution’ refers not to some secular philosophy, but to the biological theory describing how God has created all living things. This explains why the vast majority of Christians who are active in biological research today have no problem with incorporating evolutionary theory within their belief in God as Creator. Our task as scientists is to describe the actions of God in the created order as accurately as we can. We are called by God to be truthtellers. If an evolutionary process provides the best explanation for the origins of biological diversity, then that’s fine - it is not our job to second-guess God as to how He should have made things, but to describe what He has actually done.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : brev.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : added subtitle.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 4 of 15 (397703)
04-27-2007 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 10:09 AM


Don't forget Francis Collins
Creation or Evolution? Yes! | Christianity Today
My heart goes out to sincere believers who feel threatened by evolution and who feel that they have to maintain their position against it in order to prove their allegiance to God. But if God used this process and gave us the chance to discover it, then it seems anachronistic, to say the least, that we would feel we have to defend him against our own scientific conclusions. God is the author of all truth. You can find him in the laboratory as well as in the cathedral. He's the God of the Bible; he's the God of the genome. He did it all.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 3 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-27-2007 10:09 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 15 (397706)
04-27-2007 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


Don't forget...
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and all of the churches that are in Full Communion with the ELCA.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4058 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 6 of 15 (397743)
04-27-2007 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


Gosh, I think we're a great example:
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
There's many ways in which we'd be called liberal, I suppose, but we follow the Scriptures quite literally, hold to pretty much all the views of the early church (as represented by the so-called "early church fathers," such as Justin, Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, etc.) We're radical or conservative enough to believe that Jesus meant it when he said that his disciples have to deny themselves and forsake all their possessions just like he said(Luke 9:23; Luke 14:24-33).
But we're also open to what's obviously true, so the vast majority of us accept that evolution occured (molecules to mammals), though a lot of our members, due to backgrounds they've come from, really have a hard time with man evolving.
The reason I think we make a great example is because for us it was a switch from taking Genesis very literally--whether we were old-earth or young-earth--to not taking it literally at all. The result of that switch was nothing at all. Nothing changed. It didn't affect our morality, our doctrines, or anything else I can think of, unless we appreciate nature a little more and are a little more awed as we look up at the sky and at the world around us.
There's about 260 of us nowadays and we're beginning to grow much more rapidly than in the past.

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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 7 of 15 (397812)
04-27-2007 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


Apostate taxonomy.
It would be interesting to know what these Evangelical Theological Evolutionists (ETEs) think of other biblical but extra-scientific doctrines, such as those of the virgin birth, the immaculate conception, the divinity of christ (including his bodily rising from the dead), the noatic world wide flood, etc. What doctrinal beliefs delimit a 'Christian'? When a great many persons who insist that they are Christian, including many of the members of this forum, actually describe their beliefs in detail, they sound much more like Buddhists. I apologize if these comments exceed the constraints you wanted to place on this thread. Please delete my post if you think it might take the discussion in a different direction than the one you intended.
Regards, AnInGe

This message is a reply to:
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Pete OS
Junior Member (Idle past 6099 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 04-26-2007


Message 8 of 15 (397918)
04-28-2007 10:46 AM


"What doctrinal beliefs delimit a 'Christian'? "
I don't think doctrinal beliefs delimit a Christian. What delimits a Christian is repentance of sin, faith in Jesus to save you, and thereafter an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That said, this is grounded by at least some obvious doctrinal beliefs, such as Jesus really existed, really was the Son of God, and really rose from the dead (the last one being essential as described by Paul).
I certainly agree with all the miracles of the Bible. I believe in the supernatural (I believe in God after all) so believing in the virgin birth is no issue. And we have no evidence to the contrary. (I am not Catholic so I don't have any opinion on their extra-biblical doctrines such as the immaculate conception). But we do seem to have evidence on the contrary that we were created as is just 6000 years ago, and that needs to be evaluated.
Edited by Pete OS, : added a missing 'have'

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 9 of 15 (397921)
04-28-2007 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Wounded King
04-27-2007 10:31 AM


Francis Collins?
He's Christian, but is he evangelical?

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 10 of 15 (397936)
04-28-2007 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
04-28-2007 11:00 AM


Re: Francis Collins?
Dr Adequate writes:
He's Christian, but is he evangelical?
Yes he is.
Aug. 7, 2006 | As the longtime head of the Human Genome Project, Francis Collins is one of America's most visible scientists. He holds impeccable scientific credentials -- a medical degree as well as a Ph.D. in physics -- and has established a distinguished track record as a gene hunter. He's also an evangelical Christian, someone who has no qualms about professing his belief in miracles or seeing God's hand behind all of creation. The cover of his new book illustrates this unusual mixture: The book's title, "The Language of God," is superimposed on a drawing of the double helix. "The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome," he writes. "He can be worshiped in the cathedral or in the laboratory."
Here's the link. Scroll down past the ad for the Collins article.
No, seriously, how much longer? | Salon.com
Alister McGrath is an evangelical Christian. He has degrees in bot bio-chemistry and theology and is a professor at Oxford.
Alister McGrath - Wikipedia
In my view the most gifted theologian we have today is N.T. (Tom) Wright. He is an evangelical Christian who has no issues with science including evolution.
N. T. Wright - Wikipedia
Incidently in this wiki entry on him, it calls him moderately evangelical but he certainly refers to himself as evangelical in his lectures.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 11 of 15 (397951)
04-28-2007 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


How about Pentecostal minister and paleontologist Robert Bakker.

This message is a reply to:
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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 12 of 15 (397980)
04-28-2007 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Asgara
04-28-2007 1:11 PM


Didn't we have him posting here for a while?
TTFN,
WK

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2512 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 13 of 15 (398019)
04-28-2007 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Wounded King
04-28-2007 6:25 PM


for what it's worth:
http://EvC Forum: Is ID Scientific? (was "Abusive Assumptions") -->EvC Forum: Is ID Scientific? (was "Abusive Assumptions")
by a certain Dr. Robert T. Bakker. really him? I don't know. Only one post made by the guy.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 14 of 15 (398047)
04-29-2007 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


since the only thing neccessary to being an evangelical according to jesus is to believe that he is the only source of salvation, and to follow the call of the great commission (to evangelize), it's very easy to be an evangelical christian and any number of other things. it seems to me, you don't even actually have to believe that jesus was crucified or raised or any such thing... just that he is the source of salvation.
this is a great thread. i hope people keep it up. it's nice to not be alone when everyone around you is telling you you're a satan worshipper or a complete moron.

This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 15 of 15 (398095)
04-29-2007 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
04-27-2007 9:46 AM


Re: Wilcox, Moltmann
The article by Keith Miller quoted above mentions two people:
quote:
The term "continuous creationist" has been used by both Wilcox and Moltmann as a useful label for a fully theistic view of creation involving a long uninterrupted creative history.
Can anyone provide any further detail about Wilcox and Moltmann?
Are they 'continuous creationists' themselves?
______

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-27-2007 9:46 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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