What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?

Reading the thread on Fred Phelps got me thinking about something. As offensive as the Phelps family is, their basic argument seems not that different from the "America is going to hell in a handbasket because of our sin" argument that I have heard from the mouths of fundamentalists elsewhere including this board.Prominent fundamentalist Christians blamed Katrina among other natural catastrophies on the sinful nature of the areas affected or the country in general. We are constantly being told of the impending "DOOM" should we have the gall to leave homosexual people alone to have their own families. Even fundamentalist Moslems point at the "troubles" of the west blaming it on our decadence and Godlessness.Is the only difference between saying these things and protesting with your homemade "GOD HATES FAGS" sign a mere issue of motivation? Is the Phelps family just more willing to get off their ass?Alternativly, is there something we can identify that is different in the doctrine to condemn America based on our sinfullness used by the Phelps, "mainstream" Christian fundamentalism, and Islam?Also on topic are any other religious doctrine that fits the same profile as the decadence = God's wrath described above. In particular, any doctrine that is similar between groups of fundamentalists that has the effect of driving one group to different, potentially extreme, action even though the sentiment seems to be the same.Specifics that are off topic for this thread should be:1. The Phelps' status as Christians. I am looking specifically for what distinguishes them from other fundamentalists who hold similar positions yet don't take the same action that the Phelps family does. I don't care that the Phelps are not Christians because of some other X, Y, Z thing that they do.2. The doctrinal motivation for why fundamentalist Islam may hold these views is on topic but any other discussion or condemnation of Islam will be off topic. This will not be another boogie-man-Moslem thread.Faith and Belief please.Edited by Jazzns, : forgot to specify homemade 'sign'.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Well, Fallwell's comments right after 9/11 seem to indicate that the difference between Phelps and his ilk and "mainstream" fundamentalism is of degree, not kind.

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"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

I think it has to do with evangelism. They are pointing out people's 'problems' maybe in an atempt to help them. To stop them from sinning and to save the world from gods wrath. Thats why it gets so bad because they think they are doing the right thing.I tend to take a stance (towards people who I think are screwing themselves over (in god's eyes)) of "Fuck 'em". Who am I to try and tell them to change their ways, if I think what they are doing is sinning and that god will punish them, then thats between them and god, I'm not gonna get off my ass and try to save them.I guess I'm just not that nice of a guy. That and that they think its their job to try and save people, unlike me who takes the attitude of "if they're screwed then they're screwed".Perhaps I'm just not as nice and caring as the Phelps's.[/sarcasm]

I wouldn't really even call the difference between Fallwell and the Phelps a degree. I would consider them exactly the same. The only difference between Fallwell and Phelps is that Fallwell gets more airtime and is involved more politically then Phelps.Put that quote on a sign in Fallwell's hands and he is exactly the same as Phelps. The difference is the medium not the message. Same goes for Pat Robertson.Now contrast those to your more "run of the mill" fundamentalists who like to say Katrina was God's punishment for New Orleans' sin but don't take the same action that a Phelps or a Fallwell would do. Is it just because they don't have their own TV show or horde of likeminded followers with signs?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Evangelism seems like a good canidate for a doctrine difference that would distinguish the different degrees of fundamentalism in this particular case.How is the Phelps' style of evangelism specifically disallowed by the doctrine of other fundamentalists that hold the same opinion as the Phelps'?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I don't think its disallowed, it just that it is not encouraged. Maybe the others are apathetic. More likely its that they are sensible, realizing that people should be allowed to do what they want.OTOH, if I believed that other people's sins were affect the quality of our world (through god's wrath), then I could justify taking action to prevent it from negetively affecting me. I think that they think that they are 'helping' people, and themselves.

I'm not sure that it is disallowed. That's why there isn't a lot of criticism of Phelps coming from other fundies.Jesus said (matt 7:20) "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." But, judged by their practice, the slogan of fundamentalism has become "by their rhetoric ye shall know them." They have abandoned the teachings of Jesus.

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

I have to admit that before I went to uni (1994) I really didn't think people who thought like Phelps, Falwell, and all the other extreme fundy gang, existed, I thought they were caricatures.The thing is, in the UK this type of fundy Xian, and there are some, is very low-key, and I think unless you are involved in Chrsitianity in some way or are a student of religion you may not even be aware of them at all.What is it like in everyday America, do these people really get taken seriously by many people, are they only 'background noise', or are they seen as freak show material?Brian.

Here, all you need are some rhetorical skills, and a few bucks. With that you can setup a radio station and broadcast all kinds of nonsense. And if you set yourself up as a religion, you can avoid a lot of the close scrutiny that might otherwise occur.

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

quote:

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do these people really get taken seriously by many people

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They actually run the show in many areas, and have a great deal of influence in others.-

quote:

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are they seen as freak show material?

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Yes.Funny how these aren't mutually exclusive, eh?

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"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

I never even heard of Fred Phelps until I started hanging out at EvC.

But unless you intentionally tune into the radio station it's quite possible not to know they even exist. They rarely make the news.

Untrue. Falwell and Robertson are in the news quite a bit - crap, they advise our president. Ralph Reed used to be covered a fair bit, and may be again depending on what dealings he had with Abramoff. Phelps gets covered some, too. And you haven't been able to avoid Ann Coulter's blithering lately. They get far, far more coverage than either leftist Christians or atheists.

Well I suppose I just don't watch enough television. That's quite likely. Don't even have Fox News any more. I only see Ann Coulter on the conservative web sites I visit. Robertson was in the news not too long ago but just a blip in the cacaphony of sound bites. But again I suppose I'm just out of the loop. Truly I have not heard of Phelps anywhere but here though. If he's been on the news maybe I just didn't notice.As for leftist Christians, you must be joking. PBS is crawling with them. Ditto NPR. Network news IS leftists. When Robertson or Falwell or Phelps ARE covered, it's from a leftist point of view.And every Easter we are treated to the great Liberal Christian ritual of "questioning" the identity of Jesus Christ in all the major news magazines and TV and the works. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.