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Author Topic:   What Is The Holy Spirit
moolmogo
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 176 (273130)
12-27-2005 2:57 AM


What is the Holy Spirit?

Are the experiences people have with the Holy Spirit proof of the Almighty?

Which experiences are of the Holy Spirit and which are not?

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Some experiences may be, (feel free to add):

Understanding the Scriptures. Some say they learn from the Holy Spirit. Is it possible that a group of unbelievers without the Holy Spirit could gain understanding people have learned with the Holy Spirit?

Remembering verses from the Word when you need it.

Being convicted of sin and repenting.

Being led by the Holy Spirit to help someone (you may or may not know) at the right time without knowing they needed the help.

The ability to have the "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance". Is it possible for people, without the Spirit, to have all those attributes naturally and/or until they die? Are there any studies?

Then there are the miracles of healing, raising the dead, and speaking and interpreting in other earthly languages.

Some would disgree with slayings, laughing, and babbling tongues being the work of the Holy Spirit, but I think the previous are pretty standard.

This message has been edited by moolmogo, 12-27-2005 03:56 AM

This message has been edited by AdminPD, 12-27-2005 09:47 AM


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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 176 (273179)
12-27-2005 9:48 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

I edited original title to make it a question as asked in the body of the post.

This message has been edited by AdminPD, 12-27-2005 09:50 AM


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 813 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 3 of 176 (273269)
12-27-2005 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by moolmogo
12-27-2005 2:57 AM


Welcome
Welcome to the forums. I take it you are a believer.

First off, if you are going to claim raising of the dead, or any miracles, then you better be able to prove it. Most people here think that there are no documented miracles.


Are the experiences people have with the Holy Spirit proof of the Almighty?

Acts
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

It says there that you will be a witness. To witness something means that you have seen it, or felt it. It was a defining moment for me, when I feel I went from believing by faith, to something more. I no longer believe by faith, I only have faith that God will keep his promises.


Some would disgree with slayings, laughing, and babbling tongues being the work of the Holy Spirit, but I think the previous are pretty standard.

Don't confuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit, with the fruit of the Spirit.


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moolmogo
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 176 (275539)
01-03-2006 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
12-27-2005 9:48 AM


I kind of wanted read how unbelievers explained the Holy Spirit.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 5 of 176 (275541)
01-03-2006 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by moolmogo
01-03-2006 11:14 PM


LOL

I kind of wanted read how unbelievers explained the Holy Spirit.

Why would they?

AbE:

However,most of the other things you mention in your OP

Being convicted of sin and repenting.

Being led by the Holy Spirit to help someone (you may or may not know) at the right time without knowing they needed the help.

The ability to have the "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance".

IMHO are far more likely to be coming from Atheists and Agnostics than from Christians.

This message has been edited by jar, 01-03-2006 10:29 PM


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 1196 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 6 of 176 (275542)
01-03-2006 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by moolmogo
01-03-2006 11:14 PM


I don't explain the holy spirit. I haven't had any evidence that it exists.


Asgara
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 813 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 7 of 176 (275579)
01-04-2006 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Asgara
01-03-2006 11:18 PM


Subjective, or objective?

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 1196 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 8 of 176 (275595)
01-04-2006 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by riVeRraT
01-04-2006 12:40 AM


I would accept subjective to me, but would still really like to see objective to everyone.

The problem is the only thing I've ever seen has been subjective to someone else.


Asgara
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3571 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 9 of 176 (275609)
01-04-2006 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Asgara
01-03-2006 11:18 PM


I don't explain the holy spirit. I haven't had any evidence that it exists.

Well, no evidence of it existing as an independent phenomena, however, many people construe experiences and sometimes events in their life by designating what they felt or surmised as the Holy Spirit. Other experiences could be similiarly construed as an unholy spirit, like soccer hooligans rioting or something.

So in this sense a non Christian could attempt explanations of the Holy Spirit by psychology, neurology, semantics etc.

I'm not suggesting you would want to explain the Holy Spirit just that you needn't believe in the orthodox or popular explanation of it in order to explain it.

I will venture that much of what is called the Holy Spirit is contexualized emotion that at times might even involve heightened or non ordinary conscousness, suggestibility, trances, and things like that.

People can get worked up in worship. I once watched a television program about a sect that handled rattlesnakes for example. In an interview someone discribed that white light and the feeling that hit them when they finally found the courage to pick up a venemous rattler. Sounded to me like they were hit by the maximum amount of adrenlin their bodies could secret. They were slammed with an adrenlin rush into a very altered state of consciousness.

One explanation for the Holy Spirit.

lfen

edit: corrected a misspelling

This message has been edited by lfen, 01-04-2006 12:19 AM


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 813 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 10 of 176 (275642)
01-04-2006 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Asgara
01-04-2006 1:16 AM


I read about it, and studyed it in the bible, but it was years before I finall felt what I believe is the Holy Spirit manifesting himself in me.

I have been trying to explain it for 2 years, and analize it, and how it affects me. I try to be as objective as possible, but there are just too many coincidences. I could write a book about it.

Ifen writes:

People can get worked up in worship. I once watched a television program about a sect that handled rattlesnakes for example. In an interview someone discribed that white light and the feeling that hit them when they finally found the courage to pick up a venemous rattler. Sounded to me like they were hit by the maximum amount of adrenlin their bodies could secret. They were slammed with an adrenlin rush into a very altered state of consciousness.

There are always imitations of the real thing. I have no doubt what these people are feeling is real to them. Yes I do wonder if I am experiencing the same effect as them. I don't get all worked up though, I just feel overwelming love, and I get "downloads" of information sometimes. Someimtes that information is to help me, and sometimes it is to help others. I never recieve bad or depressing information, or thoughts that tell me to drink kool-aid, or go and kill someone, I also don't see any white lights. Sounds like an overdose of fear, from handling a snake, that could kill you.

God showed me a world without bad in it once. It was awesome. There was no pain, no hurt, no lies, and everybody understood each other. There was much love. The love was understood by everyone, and there was no need for people to be bad to one an other, probably just because everyone felt this love. I don't know when or if this will happen, but it was an awesome vision/thought.


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 11 of 176 (275715)
01-04-2006 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by riVeRraT
01-04-2006 6:29 AM


That description actually sounds like it jewish concept of the "holy spirit" or Shekhina. It is attributed to the heightened awareness of God, and is symbolised as the feminine aspects of god. That would go along perfectly with the 'feelings of love' (a motherly type of love).

In the Jewish conception, that is just one aspect of a 'ONE GOD', not a seperate part of a trinity.


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 12 of 176 (275720)
01-04-2006 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by moolmogo
01-03-2006 11:14 PM


The experiance that people attribute to the holy spirit is the way the brain works. Certain parts of the brain gets stimulated, and certain parts of the brain get 'quiessed' when this state is achieved. Take a look at some of the studies by "Dr Andrew Newberg"

Of course, that just describes what physcially happens with the brain during prayer/mediation/mystical experiances. It does not prove/disprove the existance of an external 'Holy Spirit'.


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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 1590 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 13 of 176 (275724)
01-04-2006 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by moolmogo
01-03-2006 11:14 PM


Bugbears
moolmogo writes:

I kind of wanted read how unbelievers explained the Holy Spirit.

Don't you see that by putting it that way, you've already included the answer? What does the word 'unbeliever' mean? How do you explain the monster under your bed?


Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 834 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 14 of 176 (277624)
01-09-2006 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by riVeRraT
12-27-2005 4:08 PM


Re: Welcome
riVeRraT,

Thanks for sharing with us your experience. It reminds me of my own.

It seems that the originator is mostly interested in what "unbelievers" (in Holy Spirit, I suppose) have to say. So I have been hesitant to write anything.

But I found ramoss's post comparing the Holy Spirit to the Shekinah light in the innermost part of the tabernacle, insightful. Ramoss didn't mention anything about the tabernacle. But the comparison of the Shekinah to the Holy Spirit I found interesting.

And also the concept of feminine aspect of God seen in the Holy Spirit, if true, explains something that I have wondered about in the New Testament for a long time.

Anyway, the originator seems interested in what non-believing views of the Holy Spirit are.

This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 07:05 PM


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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 176 (277631)
01-09-2006 8:36 PM


The Holy Spirit is that member of the trinity which is multipresent, i.e. able to be present and to function in millions of places at one time throughout the universe. According to Psalms 104:30, the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God is the agent which creates things in the universe. This is also the case in Genesis one where it is the Holy Spirit of God which does the work of creation. He is also the spirit of God which dwells in the believers according to I Corinthians 6:19: "Know you not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, which is in you, which you have from God?"
How does this happen? Jesus said in John 3:3. "You must be born from above (born again).......that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit." So when one "receives Christ" as savior, it is the spirit of Christ and the spirit of God, The Holy Spirit which comes into man via the act of man calling upon God for salvation.

You might say it is God's spirit, the Holy Spirit that God sends throughout the universe to do things. Neither Jehovah God himself, i.e. the father nor Jesus, the son is multipresent as is the Holy Spirit.


Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

  
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