The Problem of Evil

I'm sorry... This isn't really a topic in a "sense"... just a question. My english isn't very good. While I was reading somethings, I came upon this. I'm having a problem comprehending it entirely so I'm thinking maybe someone here can translate the meaning of the paragraphs in a different, less complicated manner.

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The Problem of Evil

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The figure of Satan as progenitor of sin poses logical and ethical contradictions within a monotheistic religious system that denies the ambivalence of the creator god.

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As far as the Christian Dogma is concerned, the implicit dualism of the existence of Satan has never been truly reconciled with the Canon. The Lord was infinitely good; evil had its source outside of him. Yet he was the author of all things, and ultimately responsible for his creation. How could he allow evil to exist?

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The orthodox tactic regarding the problem of evil was the privatio boni. Plato argued that evil was merely the privation of good, that it had no ontological status of its own. While he of course acknowledged the existence of moral evils in the form of wars, lies, he conveniently explained them away as a mere lack of peace or lack of truth.

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Christian theologians such as Augustine and Thomas Aquinas were quick to accept Plato's position regarding evil, and lay spurious claim to his beliefs as if they were inherent in Christian theology. They did not recognize the incompatibility of the privatio boni with the concepts of active evil, and, again, the omnipotence of God. For if evil has no being, how can it have a principle such as that incarnated in the Devil? Worse still, the dismissal of evil as an "accidental lack of perfection" flaw in the face of both reason and intuition as there is no room for such failure from an omniscient God."
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I hope people would answer. Tee hee.I was also wondering... if, in the Revelation verses, "Satan/Lucifer/Whatever" is destined to be eternally punished in the end, wouldn't that make God a... ummm... cruel (sorry for the word)? It's just, if he knew everything that would occur and every event is his design and plan, why would he have created the poor angel in the first place who will eventuall fall from grace, instigate "evil", drag poor human "souls" along with him then suffer for all eternity in the end.I feel that such a "great design" from an all powerful "higher being" is so final with a pinch of cruelty.I was also wondering if all the people in the world has had knowledge of what Christianity is. Ummm... it's just, if it is really true that Christianity, itself, is the only true religion that could save souls, what about the people somewhere, out there who was born and died without ever knowing what a bible or who Jesus is? Are they really off to the "hell" the bible proposes?Thanks in advance and I'm sorry if I upset anyone.This message has been edited by Tel Rinsiel, 08-11-2004 03:44 PM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

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The problem of Evil

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Here is a very simple way to address this question.What is Cold? The absence of heat.
What is dark? The absence of light.
What is evil? The absence of God.So basically evil wasn’t created by God, it is simply a state where God's grace is not present.

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"Satan/Lucifer/Whatever" is destined to be eternally punished in the end, wouldn't that make God a... ummm... cruel (sorry for the word)

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Let me ask you this. How just would a judge be if he let murderers/rapists/thieves go free with out punishment? Would God be just if he did not punish sinners?

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what about the people somewhere, out there who was born and died without ever knowing what a bible or who Jesus is? Are they really off to the "hell" the bible proposes?

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If they go to hell it will not be because they were not Christians. It will be because they were sinners. We all deserve hell. It is only God’s grace that saves.This message has been edited by Jasonb, 08-10-2004 12:53 PM

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Jason B

Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Unless you know better than God?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-10-2004 01:01 PM

Evil has no being unless a being incorporates evil. The Unfallen freewill Lucifer only became Satan by incorporating evil. Human sould are never dragged anywhere. They end up in one of two places. Where they should be or where they should not be. We choose.
We either choose an idol, or we choose to ignore God. In His design and plan, He attempts to get us to pay attention, but He never drags us to Heaven, either.

There is a translation issue with verse here. The ESV translates it,"Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things." A calamity could be called a natural evil (hurricanes, floods, disease) as apposed to a moral evil (murder, lying, adultery, stealing).My point was that God did not create evil. Because evil is not a tangible thing, just like dark and cold. But he certainly allows evil to be. Why? John Piper says, evil is necessary, in order to the highest happiness of the creature, and the completeness of that communication of God, for which he made the world; because the creature's happiness consists in the knowledge of God, and the sense of his love. And if the knowledge of him be imperfect, the happiness of the creature must be proportionably imperfect." Does the fact that God tolerates evil make him less Glorious? Again I defer to John Piper:"no, just the opposite. God is more glorious for having conceived and created and governed a world like this with all its evil. The effort to absolve him by denying his foreknowledge of sin or by denying his control of sin is fatal, and a great dishonor to his word and his wisdom." This message has been edited by Jasonb, 08-10-2004 01:24 PM

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Jason B

That version is only used in one particular bible - the rest all use evil (well expect for a couple that use PREPARE - even worse or SEND - worse again!)I'm not bothered who you defer to - either the word of God is correct as presented in the bible or not. If you have to make a value judgement about which one to follow, how do you know?also God clear says that he FORMS light and CREATES evil - two seperate things. Now either God is correct or science is - who's it to be?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-10-2004 01:34 PM

I'm still confused. So, was "Evil" created by the God of the bible or is it -quote- "merely the privation of good that has no ontological status of its own" -quote-.Sorry if I'm being overly inquisitive again... umm... I just want to ask if the bible God created hell or... did Satan? Also, err, does the bible God create new souls for every new born baby? I know they're silly inquiries from my silly minds... but maybe it's possible to answer them.

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If they go to hell it will not be because they were not Christians. It will be because they were sinners. We all deserve hell. It is only God’s grace that saves.

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Umm... I don't understand why we all deserve hell. It's so sad... everything is so negative.This message has been edited by Tel Rinsiel, 08-10-2004 03:52 PM

not silly questions at all - your english is very good!It's basically to do with control and guilt - to make you obey otherwise something bad will happen to you.

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Let me ask you this. How just would a judge be if he let murderers/rapists/thieves go free with out punishment? Would God be just if he did not punish sinners?

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I was kind of meaning, maybe, since the bible God knows everything that would or could happen, couldn't He have like... predicted that Lucifer would launch a rebellion against him in the first place. It's a thought that has been boggling me. So, what you're saying is... God knew that Lucifer would rebel against him, be Satan, tempt souls to disobey God and in the end, since punishing sinners is the proper thing to do, send all His misguided and unobedient creations to eternal damnation in Hell (I'm not certain... is it really eternal time in hell after Revelations? Sorry, I haven't really read much of the bible). So all of these are part of the "great design"?.This message has been edited by Tel Rinsiel, 08-10-2004 03:49 PM

Be good or something bad will happen to you, just so happens to everyone, regardless of affiliation.
Parents and children
Boss and employees
Goverment and citizens
you know!

Perhaps you would tell us the story of Isaiah 45 and to whom God is talking and why.
That will be much appreciated.
Thank you.

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That version is only used in one particular bible - the rest all use evil (well expect for a couple that use PREPARE - even worse or SEND - worse again!)

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According to Carm.org

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The Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV; .... the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

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"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these."

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So God is the author of natural calamities, but is he the author of moral evil, or sin?The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4).

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"Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13). Clearly not.

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Moral evil (sin) is choosing the opposite of what God wants. The Bible says "‘Woe to the rebellious children,’ declares Yehovah, ‘who execute a plan, but not Mine, and make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, in order to add sin to sin’" (Isaiah 30:1), so moral evil (sin) is anything we do that is contrary to God’s will. If it is contrary to what God wants, then what God wants is the opposite which cannot be evil.

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Jason B

Tel Rinsiel, are you who you say you are? It’s just that your lack of English and understanding of it seems to come and go and you seem to have the answers to all your own questions. Could you actually be Charles Knight in disguise? -Pause While Everyone Gasps- If not I apologize, but then again I wouldn’t put anything past some of the people on this board.But anyway the topic of why hell was discussed here http://EvC Forum: Justify damnation, dammit!

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Jason B

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Tel Rinsiel, are you who you say you are? It’s just that your lack of English and understanding of it seems to come and go and you seem to have the answers to all your own questions. Could you actually be Charles Knight in disguise? -Pause While Everyone Gasps- If not I apologize, but then again I wouldn’t put anything past some of the people on this board.

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Oh, I'm not Charles. Well, here in the Philippines, we do not casually use english on the streets to communicate with people. We all could only learn the language in schools so I'm not sure if my grammar is as up-to-date as the common usage of english nowadays. I kind of thought I should forewarn people in case I make jibberish kinds of sentences again. I usually make unintelligible statements so I instinctively admit it's my fault whenever people misunderstand me.I'm still confused... how come there's this passage? I'll quote it from Charles.

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Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Are there different types of bibles or versions of bibles? I've never been aware of that. Ummm, if there are different types, which one is the most consice?By the way, thanks for the link to the "hell" topic.This message has been edited by Tel Rinsiel, 08-10-2004 06:33 PM