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Author Topic:   Humanity's Stuggle With Death.
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 104 (279060)
01-14-2006 9:44 PM


This scene is made-up, just a dream of mine, but I tried to articulate the feelings that come with death. When someone you love dearly is lost. The feelings that come out of such a struggle are truly there, my mother and my grandfather died when I was younger, and left a lasting impression on me about God, and the afterlife. About the love and the relationships I had with them. I ask you:
What is there other than this ultimate reunion of souls?
Why would life be worth living without eternity?
Are the feelings of total partiality, and love all part of humanity's innate abilities to become one with eachother?
This struggle invokes feelings like no others, death becomes a benchmark of memory. What can honestly explain this? Why are humans like this? And why are only humans like this? Why do the polar bears not cry? And why do the plants not mourn the death of relatives?
Why are we special, and who/what made us like this?
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-15-2006 09:33 PM
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-16-2006 02:53 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 01-16-2006 1:30 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 7 by jar, posted 01-22-2006 11:15 AM joshua221 has replied
 Message 8 by nwr, posted 01-22-2006 1:40 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 9 by ramoss, posted 01-22-2006 2:19 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-23-2006 8:11 AM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 30 by Coragyps, posted 01-23-2006 11:44 AM joshua221 has replied
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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 104 (279459)
01-16-2006 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
01-14-2006 9:44 PM


Death: The Final Frontier
Many have a fear of death. Like you, I cannot imagine a world where THIS is all that there is and is the "whole point." Others will challenge your questions. Who is your target audience? Shorten it up a bit and decide whether you want to discuss your personal philosophy and feeling or whether you want to ask the audience why they think that there need no be an afterlife. (You indicate that there surely MUST be an afterlife.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 01-14-2006 9:44 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by joshua221, posted 01-16-2006 3:06 PM AdminPhat has not replied
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 Message 6 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 10:48 AM AdminPhat has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 104 (279494)
01-16-2006 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
01-16-2006 1:30 PM


Re: Death: The Final Frontier
How's that.?

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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 104 (280637)
01-22-2006 7:37 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 5 of 104 (280700)
01-22-2006 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
01-16-2006 1:30 PM


Re: Death: The Final Frontier
wrong name
This message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 01-22-2006 10:47 AM

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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 104 (280701)
01-22-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
01-16-2006 1:30 PM


Re: Death: The Final Frontier
The target audience are people who have no belief in the afterlife, and find purpose in their lives. It has been talked about before, but I figured we could straighten it out here.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 104 (280710)
01-22-2006 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
01-14-2006 9:44 PM


Siver bells and cockle shells...
and pretty maids all in a row.
Why would life be worth living without eternity?
  • hearing a baby laugh.
  • the taste of a tomato sandwich made from home baked egg bread and a Better Boy tomato picked fresh from the vine.
  • the smell of a newly cut meadow.
  • the sound a bike's tires make on the road right after a rain.
  • lying on a hilside watching shooting stars.

This struggle invokes feelings like no others, death becomes a benchmark of memory. What can honestly explain this? Why are humans like this? And why are only humans like this? Why do the polar bears not cry? And why do the plants not mourn the death of relatives?
What makes you think only humans are different or special? Many other species show similar traits. Elephants mourn and revere lost ones, many birds mate for life.
Why are we special, and who/what made us like this?
What makes you think we're special?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 01-14-2006 9:44 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 5:03 PM jar has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 8 of 104 (280739)
01-22-2006 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
01-14-2006 9:44 PM


What is there other than this ultimate reunion of souls?
There is what we see, feel, hear, touch.
Why would life be worth living without eternity?
It is worth living for what we see, hear, feel, touch and otherwise experience.
Are the feelings of total partiality, and love all part of humanity's innate abilities to become one with eachother?
They are partly innate abilities, and partly acquired (learned).
And why are only humans like this? Why do the polar bears not cry?
I'm not convinced it is only humans. I have heard of cases where dogs have mourned.
Our feelings are partly a result of learning, of being part of a cooperative social group. We are an intensely social species.
Why are we special, and who/what made us like this?
We have appointed ourselves special. You could say that it is a matter of ego.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 01-14-2006 9:44 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 9 of 104 (280745)
01-22-2006 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
01-14-2006 9:44 PM


quote:
What is there other than this ultimate reunion of souls?
Life.. every day existance. the love a person for their parents, their spouse. The smell of the flowers in the summer, and the feel of wind through your hair (if you have any).
quote:
Why would life be worth living without eternity?
It makes life all that more precious. My life, and your life.
Every life is unique and therefore precious.
quote:
Are the feelings of total partiality, and love all part of humanity's innate abilities to become one with eachother?
There is a good biological function for that.. man is a social aninmal. Those feelings towards your fellow man helps bond societies togather.
quote:
This struggle invokes feelings like no others, death becomes a benchmark of memory. What can honestly explain this? Why are humans like this? And why are only humans like this? Why do the polar bears not cry? And why do the plants not mourn the death of relatives?
Man has a hyper developed intellect as a survivival characteristic. As for death becoming a benchmark of memory, can you prove it is only for man? Plants don't have intelligent. And, I don't know if bears do not have an equivilant or not. elephants do seem to mourn, as to other primates.
quote:
Why are we special, and who/what made us like this?
Other than ego, why do you think we are 'special'? and natural processes is certainly a good enough explaination on how we got the
way we are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 01-14-2006 9:44 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 104 (280773)
01-22-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
01-22-2006 11:15 AM


For ramoss, nwr, and jar. Jar's points encompassed many of yours
quote:
hearing a baby laugh.
the taste of a tomato sandwich made from home baked egg bread and a Better Boy tomato picked fresh from the vine.
the smell of a newly cut meadow.
the sound a bike's tires make on the road right after a rain.
lying on a hilside watching shooting stars.
All of these feelings are then, fleeting?
Are these wonderful feelings that you have described limited to the life we live on earth? Will they someday not be with us?
This is the root of the problem that I have, Life is so great, but without eternity, it's greatness is only temporary. To be buried with our bodies, buried with wherever we felt these amazing feelings that encompass all of life. Life can give you reason to live, yes, but how can something so special become forgotten? These fundemental questions form the roots to why I know that there is an afterlife. Excluding the texts that I have accepted as objective truth.
quote:
What makes you think only humans are different or special? Many other species show similar traits. Elephants mourn and revere lost ones, many birds mate for life.
I have begun to think that the other species were created for us. As food. Also as companions in some out of the ordinary cases. I believe we are special because not only of the obvious reasons, such as intelligence, civilization, and our complex emotions, and feelings. But because I believe that a God created us, and for us he created everything else.
quote:
What makes you think we're special?
For us, there is an afterlife, a loving creator, and destiny.
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-22-2006 05:04 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 01-22-2006 11:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by nwr, posted 01-22-2006 5:23 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 13 by Michael, posted 01-22-2006 5:31 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 14 by nator, posted 01-22-2006 5:35 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 17 by jar, posted 01-22-2006 7:55 PM joshua221 has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 104 (280778)
01-22-2006 5:06 PM


Elephants can't have a philosophy about the life, or the world.
Humans are set apart from nature spiritually, we are physically only partially seperated because of civilization.

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 12 of 104 (280782)
01-22-2006 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
01-22-2006 5:03 PM


Re: For ramoss, nwr, and jar. Jar's points encompassed many of yours
Are these wonderful feelings that you have described limited to the life we live on earth? Will they someday not be with us?
The feelings will go on, but a time will come when we will no longer be with them.
This is the root of the problem that I have, Life is so great, but without eternity, it's greatness is only temporary.
Its greatness continues in our children, grandchildren, ...
I have begun to think that the other species were created for us.
That's a mistake. It is that mistake that could destroy the earth, or at least destroy it for our species. And if that happens, the greatness will not continue into future generations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 5:03 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4637 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 13 of 104 (280784)
01-22-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
01-22-2006 5:03 PM


my opinion
All of these feelings are then, fleeting?
I think you are asking: "will these feelings exist for me after I die?" I have no reason to believe that they will.
Are these wonderful feelings that you have described limited to the life we live on earth? Will they someday not be with us?
So it seems. After death, nothing.
Life is so great, but without eternity, it's greatness is only temporary.
For any single one of us, yes. I believe that others will go on experiencing and loving life after I am gone.
how can something so special become forgotten?
There will be others still living after you, to continue to experience. You just won't be around to know it. For some, that may sound bleak. I don't find it so.
Cheers.
*very minor edit made
This message has been edited by Michael, 01-22-2006 05:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 14 of 104 (280785)
01-22-2006 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
01-22-2006 5:03 PM


Re: For ramoss, nwr, and jar. Jar's points encompassed many of yours
quote:
Are these wonderful feelings that you have described limited to the life we live on earth? Will they someday not be with us?
Nobody knows.
quote:
This is the root of the problem that I have, Life is so great, but without eternity, it's greatness is only temporary. To be buried with our bodies, buried with wherever we felt these amazing feelings that encompass all of life. Life can give you reason to live, yes, but how can something so special become forgotten? These fundemental questions form the roots to why I know that there is an afterlife. Excluding the texts that I have accepted as objective truth.
I have a tiny, 100ml bottle of very special Balsamic vinegar which was gifted to me by the brothers who make it on their family's land in Modena, Italy.
The minimum age for all of the vinegar in that bottle is at least 45 years old, but much of it (as it is a blend of various ages of vinegar) is much older. They only bottle around 10 of these per year.
I haven't opened the bottle yet, but I will. I will open it and very occasionally consume very small amounts of it.
It will be glorious; a transcendent culinary experience that very few people have ever gotten to experience, and I will get to repeat it many times, and share it with my family and special friends.
And then this tiny bottle of special, rare vinegar will be empty.
Such is life.
When that bottle is empty, does that, in your eyes, constitute evidence that there is an afterlife?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 5:03 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 7:47 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 15 of 104 (280786)
01-22-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by joshua221
01-22-2006 5:06 PM


quote:
Humans are set apart from nature spiritually
We are mostly set apart intellectually.
"Spirituality" is a product of this intellect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 5:06 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
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