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Author Topic:   A possible source of religious beliefs.
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 6 (349535)
09-16-2006 12:40 AM


I vaguely remember reading someone's comment that the judeo-christian god must be real because humans are incapable of creating/imagining something that doesn't exist. He went on to point out that most other religions and art forms have been based on some sort of objects or animal that we can see (the sun god, for example, or the god of thunder). I think it was buzsaw that made the comment but I'm not sure.
A long time ago, in a house far, far away... we had a couple of cats. One of the cats was lazy and obese while the other very active. The active one loved to go out hunting and do whatever she was doing outside all day long. The problem was she kept bring back dead stuff and put them in the house. The more we yelled at her, the more dead stuff she brought back. One time, she even killed my bird and brought the corpse to me.
Fast forward in time. Not too long ago, I buried a couple of dead crabs (either bury them or eat them I guess). The next day, my dog was able to dig up one of the crabs and tried to bring it inside the house after he rubbed it all over himself.
Now that I think about it, these behaviors eerily resembles how primitive tribesmen make sacrifices to their gods. The hunters would offer some of their kills and the gatherers would offer some of their finds as sacrifice.
Before you say anything, let me just point out that I absolutely do not think my cats and dogs thought I was their god. I do, however, think that they probably thought of me as leader of the pact or a being with much greater control over their resources. After all, I control their food supplies.
This got me thinking. The hunters and gatherers would bring back gifts for their clan leaders. Some would start to make sacrifices to appease the greater beings that seemed to control the elements (the sun, the sky, the rain, etc.). Again, they probably didn't view these beings as omnipotent and omniscient gods. They probably viewed these beings in a very similar way as my dogs and cats view me, a being that seemed to have more control over life than they did.
Naturally, a primitive form of division of labor came along and we would have groups of people who specialized in appeasing and communicating with the "gods". Then you know the rest.
Isn't it possible that people's natural lean toward religious beliefs came from a very ancient form animal instinct that never died out?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by kuresu, posted 09-16-2006 3:06 AM Taz has replied
 Message 3 by RickJB, posted 09-16-2006 4:45 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 4 by Dr Jack, posted 09-16-2006 6:14 AM Taz has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 2 of 6 (349542)
09-16-2006 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
09-16-2006 12:40 AM


dude, that's wierd. as in, interesting perspective. I generally think along the lines that religion was created as a control on society. In that, as we began to coelesce, the upper class (or whoever else was in power), wanted to keep power. Also, needed to control how society acted (prevent anarchy, chaos, etc). Hence morality. Hence god worship. What once may have been used merely to explain things (hey--some god is making the ground spit fire) were turned around and used for control. And we all see how effective a control it is--from the extremist islamists (Taliban, Al-Queda, Insurgency, Ahmedijan) to the extremist christians (Robertson, Faith, Hovind) so thoroughly believe in this stuff that they follow it lock-step style. Quite easy to control them, really.
and they tell us that we're indoctrinated at can't see the truth

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 09-16-2006 12:40 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 3 of 6 (349548)
09-16-2006 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
09-16-2006 12:40 AM


I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge to truly evaluate this, but the idea is interesting!
One important clue about early human worship (and offerings) might also derive from the way in which we tend to anthropromorphize our surroundings. In this instance nature is imagined as a collection of humanoid Gods who share our own need for food and respect.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 6 (349553)
09-16-2006 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
09-16-2006 12:40 AM


Cat's bring you dead animals for two reasons:
1. Many domestic don't actually realise they're supposed to eat them. Seriously, cat's have to learn from their mothers to eat mice, birds, etc. Catching them is an innate instinct; eating 'em isn't.
2. Cats never see you hunt; so they bring you in dead, then injured then live animals to practice with. Seriously, if you observe the behaviour of a mother cat with her kittens and a cat with her owner they're identical, down to body language and everything. This is why female cats are more likely to bring in whole animals, and male cats are more likely to leave severed heads and the like (generally somewhere you'll tred on 'em when you come down in the morning without your shoes on; don't know why they do that).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 09-16-2006 12:40 AM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 5 of 6 (349863)
09-17-2006 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by kuresu
09-16-2006 3:06 AM


You're just describing what comes after what I described.

This message is a reply to:
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DarkBoards
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 6 (364903)
11-20-2006 12:03 PM


Gasby, that was a great piece of reasoning. I don't think the chasm between cats instinctively bringing in body parts for training purposes and offerings is that wide really. We're talking about a few genetic mutations in the brain pretty much.

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