Commands from God and his general level of interaction in the modern age

A quote from Ravhin got me thinking about something:

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The murder of every last man, woman and child by the Hebrews invading another nation was attributed to a command from God - but did they actually receive such a command? Perhaps the soldiers were simply overzealous and did some pretty evil things. Perhaps, as the victors, they simply wrote that God had commanded it as justification.

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After all, who would question the Will of God?

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If we accept that God is real - how do we determine if he gives direct commands to people? What if he commanded me to kill Gay people or people who did not respect the holy day. Am I a serial killer or obeying the will of the lord?I think what I'm really trying to ask - is there a cut-off period in the bible where God no longer interacts directly with people ? (The coming of jesus?) Or is it never specifically stated?Does that mean that anyone who claims to have a vision or command from God (working on the assumption that the bible is true) cannot be correct within the history of interaction given by the bible?Does that make sense to anyone?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

This reminds me of a question posed by a philosopher of mine a while back.First day of class, he gave out a paper handout to everyone. What was on there was something like the following:You are walking in the park when you suddenly hear a voice in the sky telling you that you must buy a gun, go to New York city, and kill as many people as you can because it has become a sinful city. What do you do?Someone raised his hand and answered that he would do it immediately because he trusts god with all his heart.This guy happens to be the president of the christian student group on campus.That little comment by that guy made me aware just how scary christians are, knowing that they could turn and kill my family anytime they think god is commanding them to. It also made me realize just how idiotic christians are, not being able to question their own sanity. For all we know, the voice could have been part of our schizophrenic hallucinations, a possibility that the guy never considered.

well, from a literary presepctive, there is less and less god in the bible as the books progress. later books and books about later times seem to have a more removed impersonal sense of god.if there a cut-off point?well, not in the bible, really. the bible is fundamentally about god's interactions with mankind. it'd kind of be looking in the wrong place. however.there are books of the bible without god in them at all. pauk's letters are not descriptions of god directing man or interacting with man. ruth and i think esther only use the word "god" idiomatically (like "god bless you" when someone sneezes). and song of songs doesn't mention god AT ALL.some of these are before christ, too.but the bible does, in the early books, use god as a justification for various things. i can explain if there's any debate on the matter. i don't think that would logically follow, actually. if god DOES exist, be definition he would not be a set of logical rules. as a sentient being (at the very least) god would be able to talk to or not talk to whomever he wished, whenever he wished.so it's concievable then, from the assumption, that the nutjob in central park with the gun COULD be right. and it'd be somewhat consistent with the bible.

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אָרַח

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i don't think that would logically follow, actually. if god DOES exist, be definition he would not be a set of logical rules. as a sentient being (at the very least) god would be able to talk to or not talk to whomever he wished, whenever he wished.

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That's what I was trying to get at - there is not a bit in the bible where God says (words to this effect) "I'll keep my eye on you all but until the return of jesus I would not speak directly to a human".By Speak I mean "I AM YOUR GOD AND I WANT YOU TO DO....."

As a Christian I know that GOD still interacts individually with me at least, so I don't see any cut off.On your specific question "... if he commanded me to kill Gay people or people who did not respect the holy day." is not a commandment that GOD would ever give. He hasn't in the past and will not in the future.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't want you to think I am slipping back into bad ways but it just seems like a good example to get people talking.I was just interested in a more general sense, does he still interact in the same way that he did in the bible? When something like an earthquake happens is God speaking to someone and saying "Lo I have turned back the evilones as I promised". Do we have "bibical" things happening and we just don't realise because we are too skeptical/cynical etc?

well, tradition does hold that god is keeping a distance from humans, at least in judaism. in christianity, i'm pretty sure revelation is considered to be the definitive last book of the bible -- which would imply that there are no more revelations to be made. ie: god is keeping quiet until those prophecies come true.but it's totally subjective. lots of people read it different ways.

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אָרַח

That wasn't God speaking to man back then either. It was an earthquake.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

We've heard a lot of comments like that recently, with the tsunami for example. God is punishing us, et cetera.I also wonder what believers think about God apparently speaking to people about terrorist acts. I suppose those people are just crazy.

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I think what I'm really trying to ask - is there a cut-off period in the bible where God no longer interacts directly with people ? (The coming of jesus?) Or is it never specifically stated?

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I had asked myself the same question a couple years back, and while reading the Bible this summer at a basketball camp, somewhere in Acts, it said something about "a time when God did not directly interact" or something to that effect. I'll try to look it up, but with that said, that would mean that there are times when God is quiet, because of that verse. It is a few chapters before "Saul's Conversion". Sorry for the vagueness.

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If we accept that God is real - how do we determine if he gives direct commands to people? What if he commanded me to kill Gay people or people who did not respect the holy day. Am I a serial killer or obeying the will of the lord?

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It's unrealistic, and these type of "what if" questions never seem to help me know God.

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porteus@gmail.com

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You are walking in the park when you suddenly hear a voice in the sky telling you that you must buy a gun, go to New York city, and kill as many people as you can because it has become a sinful city. What do you do?

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Someone raised his hand and answered that he would do it immediately because he trusts god with all his heart.

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This guy happens to be the president of the christian student group on campus.

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That guy is more of a man than me, I probably would have rebelled as a Jonah. That's amazing.

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That little comment by that guy made me aware just how scary christians are, knowing that they could turn and kill my family anytime they think god is commanding them to. It also made me realize just how idiotic christians are, not being able to question their own sanity. For all we know, the voice could have been part of our schizophrenic hallucinations, a possibility that the guy never considered.

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If it was God, we would know. Your little insult tyrade against Christian people serves no purpose, my friend.Why didn't you say anything? It seems like that man had a profound effect on you with that "little comment", why wouldn't you say what you said here, then?

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made me aware just how scary christians are

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It also made me realize just how idiotic christians are

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You have taken college courses, and you still generalize as if you know nothing about the world. Nothing about people.Safe Living, easy Living, No use for faith, no deep belief, living on logic. Your hearts are dead.

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porteus@gmail.com

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If it was God, we would know.

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Well, that's the trick isn't it? How would you know? Intuition? That in itself is scary. I'm quite sure that every psycho-killer claiming direction from God (less those faking it hoping for a lesser sentence) 'knew' that it really was God talking.

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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Well, wow, where to start.Christians DO experience God "talking" to us in a certain sense, but more indirectly, such as through His provision in our lives, through answered prayer, through a Bible passage that seems to jump off the page as it speaks directly to a current question or concern, and of course by impressions and guilt feelings in our conscience to guide our actions and show us where we are in the wrong (yes, He convicts me a lot about my fits of anger and I resolve to change, get slack about praying for His help and fall right back into it). ["Convicts" is Christian jargon I guess. It refers to impressions of guilt for wrong attitudes and actions.] It is all for our personal guidance in the things of God, for growth of the ability to obey the teachings and example of Christ.Except for this kind of communication, most branches of Christianity believe that prophecy as such [or the direct speaking of God to individuals, not to be confused with prophesying future events although sometimes that's part of it] stopped with the assembling of the Biblical canon. The first churches were given many direct messages from God as well as other supernatural manifestations such as miraculous healings. The usual explanation for why these phenomena (known as "charismata" or "spiritual gifts") stopped when scripture was complete, is that they were needed to encourage the first believers in this brand-new set of ideas never heard on earth before, to demonstrate that they were truly from God, and in the case of prophecy, needed to instruct the church in the doctrines of God while written guidance was yet only scantily available. So that when the church was later solidly established and doctrine more complete and readily available, including all the letters of the apostles, the need for prophecy and the other gifts of the Spirit stopped.However, there has always been some controversy about this view of the cessation of the gifts. Usually it was only small fringe groups (that were pronounced heretical) that insisted that the gifts had not stopped, and that all of them including prophecy were still in practice among them. Then in the 19th century the idea that the gifts were still intended for believers started to grow in popularity, and in the 20th century the idea took off as manifestations of the gifts were experienced in various churches, and the Pentecostal and then the Charismatic movement became large and influential.Randman and I discussed our agreements and disagreements about this movement on the thread started by Gilgamesh on Conversion Experiences a couple of months ago, but since the Search feature is disabled finding them would be a bit difficult at the moment.The student who said he would take a word from heaven as from God is probably a victim of this charismania. They tend to be short on doctrine and long on emotion so the fact that a knowledge of Christian teaching makes it absolutely certain that God would NOT tell someone to kill a person doesn't occur to him. Of course most charismatics would disagree with him too, so I don't know how to account for his extreme gullibility.To cut to the chase: Without taking a position on the validity of all charismatic teaching, I think I can say that any "word from God" that cannot be substantiated in scripture or in any way contradicts scripture is not from God. We do, however, believe in fallen angels, and in their various supernatural powers and their intention to deceive, and some of these things can be explained by their activities, only too easily put over on gullible Christians. No, it's not insanity, it's not a mental trick. These things happen.{Edit: Obviously, for a Christian to obey such a directive from a demonic being would be against God. To sum up my point, the way you know anything is from God is by its consistency with scripture and I mean scripture properly understood of course, as scripture wrongly understood can be used to rationalize anything too.}This message has been edited by Faith, 08-28-2005 08:19 PM

The key word is "we". After having been duped by many so-called Christians who told me that God told them to tell me (...) and feeling no confirmation within my own spirit, I began to understand that the difference between Psycho- delusionalism, ordinary intuition, and actual God inspired wisdom is confirmed through Gods primary attribute of love. Its also about wisdom.
Confirmation is both internal and external through two or more "witnesses". If I feel that I am being called to go overseas and join the peace corps, someone else whom may never have known my desire may say that they felt an inner unction that saw me overseas working in a human aid organization.By contrast, if some guy (church or otherwise) just came up to me and said that God told me to go to Africa, I would question the source of the wisdom, as I never felt an inner confirmation.