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Author Topic:   How to explain disbelief in the all-important Bible?
Am5n 
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From: New York City, New York, United States
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Message 1 of 59 (435275)
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


The Bible has become a very important book, ever since it was written, translated, and was copied so that it could be a way everybody could understand God and learn more about him.
By a lot of people, the bible is considered not important, just a fantasy. So why was it so important to be translated, copied, and is found in every book store, library, etc? If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?

2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you and you shall answer me." JOB 38:23

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Message 2 of 59 (435276)
11-20-2007 6:42 AM


This thread was promoted based upon Message 6 of the proposed thread Believers in a Creator vs Disbelievers.

--Percy
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Dr Jack
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Message 3 of 59 (435279)
11-20-2007 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


How many languages has Shakespeare been translated into, do you think? What about the Qu'ran?

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nator
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Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 4 of 59 (435281)
11-20-2007 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


quote:
If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?
1) It may or may not be important.
2) The reason people have "gone to all the trouble" to spread it worldwide is because the people who believe it is supernatural in origin also believe that it is important to spread it worldwide.
That in no way indicates that it actually is important, only that some people think it is.
Coca Cola has been spread worldwide, too, you know. Does that mean Coca Cola is important?

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 5 of 59 (435282)
11-20-2007 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


Amen writes:
The Bible has become a very important book...
You could have substituted the word "Koran" (or Qur'an) for the word "Bible" in your post, and then tried to answer your own question.
By a lot of people, the bible is considered not important, just a fantasy.
That's very badly worded. Not believing that the Bible is the word of God is not the same as not considering it important. The Bible is automatically important because of the large number of Christians in the world and their influence. The earlier English translations are also very important in the history of our language.
The phrase "just a fantasy" is bad, as the Bible relates some true history amongst its myths. It is a mixture of fantasy and fact to non-Christians like me.
If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?
If there are people who believe it's "not important", it's hardly likely that those people have gone to the trouble of trying to put it in every country, is it? It was spread to "every country" by people who believed it was important.
If lots of people believe that a book is the word of God, then that book becomes important, regardless of the veracity of the belief. Bible or Koran or anything else.
I think you need to rephrase or clarify your O.P.

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 6 of 59 (435283)
11-20-2007 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by nator
11-20-2007 7:25 AM


nator writes:
That in no way indicates that it actually is important, only that some people think it is.
Amen's use of the word "important" is probably confusing. He uses it to mean "important" (which the Bible is) but also when he probably means to say "all true" or "the word of God" or "magic" or something else.
It's a bad O.P.

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PaulK
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Message 7 of 59 (435284)
11-20-2007 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
11-20-2007 7:21 AM


The Qu'ran is more important than the Bible on that score - it's so important that you shouldn't rely on translations. You should learn Arabic just so you can read it in the original language. Or at least that is what Muslims believe. And that is what they do.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 8 of 59 (435287)
11-20-2007 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


Do you believe the purpose of the bible is to promote god? Could god not have come up with something a little more creative than a book?
The majority may believe but it doesn't always make it true.

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Phat
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Posts: 18262
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Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 9 of 59 (435289)
11-20-2007 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by nator
11-20-2007 7:25 AM


Things Go Better With Coke
Nator writes:
Coca Cola has been spread worldwide, too, you know. Does that mean Coca Cola is important?
Coca-Cola is a commercial product. In many cases, the Bible is given away. While Religion is, unfortunately, also often commercialized, the good book itself seems to be distributed quite freely and indiscriminately.
List Of best-selling Books
It is also a best-seller.
Nator writes:
2) The reason people have "gone to all the trouble" to spread it worldwide is because the people who believe it is supernatural in origin also believe that it is important to spread it worldwide.
While commercialized religion has been full of fraud and misrepresentation, there is also indeed a lot of average people who have been changed by the message of this book and by the character behind the book--namely Jesus Christ.
That being said, I believe that it is wise to question the book, and I do not believe that everything contained therein is word for word literal. I DO personally believe that Jesus Christ lives today in a manner unlike other historical figures and/or characters.
Nator writes:
1) It may or may not be important.
I am reminded of what the Gideons put inside the front jacket of the Bibles that they give away without charge or strings attached:

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.
Christ is its grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God its end.
It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.
Edited by Phat, : fixed broken quote

Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
* * * * * * * * * *
“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Homer Simpson: Sometimes, Marge, you just have to go with your gut!
Marge: You *always* go with your gut! How about for once you listen to your brain?

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Parasomnium
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Posts: 2224
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Message 10 of 59 (435290)
11-20-2007 7:57 AM


More candidates
Don't forget the Guinness Book of World Records, the Harry Potter series, and the IKEA catalogue...

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5909 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 11 of 59 (435293)
11-20-2007 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


Amen
By a lot of people, the bible is considered not important, just a fantasy. So why was it so important to be translated, copied, and is found in every book store, library, etc? If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?
Marketing. You cannot get business if you do not advertise.
Just because an idea is popular does not make it correct though it is a tendency of humans to assert this notion in their daily lives. In fact, that an idea which is of dubious quality is held for emotional reasons the application of repetition helps to suppress any attempts at criticism.

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 12 of 59 (435294)
11-20-2007 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by PaulK
11-20-2007 7:43 AM


The Qu'ran is more important than the Bible on that score - it's so important that you shouldn't rely on translations. You should learn Arabic just so you can read it in the original language. Or at least that is what Muslims believe. And that is what they do.
But do they? Most Muslims do not understand Arabic, classical or modern. And most Muslims do not know much about the contents of the Qur'an, just as most Christians haven't actually read the Bible. It's a bit like when the Bible was only available in Latin.
It's better that way for the religion, because too many people thinking about the contradictions and silliness of their Holy books tends to lead to this thing called "doubt".

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 13 of 59 (435296)
11-20-2007 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by pelican
11-20-2007 7:49 AM


Heinrik writes:
The majority may believe but it doesn't always make it true.
Just a technical point. The majority of people do not believe in the Christian God, or that the Bible is "true" or the word of God.

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jar
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Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 59 (435299)
11-20-2007 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


A few questions
The Bible has become a very important book, ever since it was written, translated, and was copied so that it could be a way everybody could understand God and learn more about him.
As I have pointed out in the past, there is no such thing as "The Bible". Not only are there many different translations the change and reword much of the Western Canon, there are other Canons that contain quite different selections of books and ordering.
I think what you may be referring to is the "Holy Bible of the Western Canon". There we can see a fairly clear history where the Bible was either more or less accessible.
The first Bibles were mandated government grant book designated to be placed in the new churches to be built in the areas around the new capitol of Constantinople. There wasn't much in the mandate as to content or theology, but was an absolute requirement that they be beautiful and impressive.
For most of the history of Bible of the Western Canon, it was not accessible to the majority of worshipers. Costs to create a hand drawn copy were simply too high for the average person to manage and frankly, production times were so long that the supply was severely limited.
It was only after the invention of mechanical automated printing and the translations into the vernacular that the Bible became something that was distributed in any quantity or available to the general public.
By a lot of people, the bible is considered not important, just a fantasy.
Much of the Bible is fantasy.
So why was it so important to be translated, copied, and is found in every book store, library, etc? If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?
Marketing. The Bible is the primary marketing material of the Christian faith.
So now to questions.
The availability of most books is based on demand, however the Bible is different. Should it not be cast in comparison to advertising and commercials instead of trying to compare it to general literature?
Is not much of what you describe driven solely from the production end, Bibles being translated, printed, distributed by the source rather than on demand?
Is not the fact that they are so readily available for free an indicator of the value placed on the book by the consumer as well as the publisher?
Edited by jar, : hit submit instead of preview

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
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Message 15 of 59 (435302)
11-20-2007 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by bluegenes
11-20-2007 8:56 AM


Most Muslims do not understand Arabic, classical or modern.
i think you'll need to demonstrate this.

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