Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8915 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 07-15-2019 2:56 PM
36 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: lopezeast0211, Theodoric
Post Volume:
Total: 856,792 Year: 11,828/19,786 Month: 1,609/2,641 Week: 118/708 Day: 52/66 Hour: 6/9


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
234Next
Author Topic:   Atheistic preacher?
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4347 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 1 of 53 (154430)
10-30-2004 1:40 PM


Lam and others have asked me what it would take for them to convince me that there is no God, so I may stop 'wasting my time'. I realize the non-biblical, nonscientific arguements regarding whether or not God exists are already being covered in other threads and not getting anywhere, but I think this might be a little more interesting. This is not about His existence, but one stupid kid's belief in Him. It already sounds like a kickass movie starring Wesley Snipes as the young minister, so I think we should try this experiment.

Here are the rules: No scripture, no science. Only those who want to 'convert' me. No devil's advocates. No holds are barred in the sense that you may use attacks on my faith, my beliefs, and even personal lowblows(assuming you somehow have dirt on me). I'll look forward to seeing why you knuckleheads think I should be doing something else with my life .


God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.

www.xanga.com/BadPreacher (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-30-2004 4:22 PM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Lammy, posted 10-31-2004 2:58 AM One_Charred_Wing has responded
 Message 48 by Tusko, posted 11-02-2004 6:33 AM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 53 (154450)
10-30-2004 2:38 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3 of 53 (154463)
10-30-2004 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing
10-30-2004 1:40 PM


Born2Preach writes:

It already sounds like a kickass movie starring Wesley Snipes as the young minister, so I think we should try this experiment.

So can you jump?

I don't have anything against you except that darn Bad Preacher website..that hardly does good for setting an example.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-30-2004 1:40 PM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4347 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 4 of 53 (154561)
10-31-2004 1:59 AM


Calling all Lams
Lam, I'm callin' you out. You wanted to try and change my mind, here's your chance. Especially considering I'm about to fall asleep in my chair. It's midnight, err, 11 due to time lapse.Must...wait for friend to call...
    
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3611
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 5 of 53 (154565)
10-31-2004 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing
10-30-2004 1:40 PM


First of all, I didn't say that I could prove to you that there is no god. That's impossible. I'd have to go look under every rock and shake every tree.

What I want to convince you is there is no reason why you should believe in a god (or any other divine entity) unless it's purely for your own security as a person.

Here comes the part that I like the most. I have said this many times before. The burden of proof always falls on the side that claims the positive. If I want to prove to you that a bear exists, all iu have to do is show you some kind of direct evidence that such a creature exists. However, if I want to prove to you that a bear doesn't exist, it's a lot harder for me to do so especially if the bear really doesn't exist. I'd have to search every habitat on Earth, build a spaceship and go to other planets to show that a bear doesn't exist.

What I want you to do is ask yourself why you believe in a divine entity such as god. Ask yourself that question.

Here are some arguments that I have gathered.

(1)The bible says so.

Well, the bible says a lot of things. The question is how do you know the bible is telling you the truth? Well, the answer I've always gotten was "god says so." Circular reasoning alert!

(2)Common sense.

May I remind you that common sense tells us that the sun orbits the earth.

(3) Nature reflects god's plan.

What the hell is this suppose to mean? Really, does anyone really know what the hell this mean?

(4) "I just know it... I spoke to me... personal evidence..."

Well, god spoke to Jim Jones also and look what happenned to the people that followed him.

(5) Everything must have come from something, the universe had to have come from something, and that something is god.

Well, let me see... first of all how the hell do you know that that something is the judeo-christian god? Secondly, if everything must have come from something, what created "god"?

You are welcome to keep tossing out other reasons, but the fact remains that all of them require a leap of "faith".

A friend of mine once said something along the line of "I knew that I was god the moment that I realized I was talking to myself when I prayed." Well, I had the same relevation, and it scared me. Either I was god or I needed psychiatric help.

Any question so far?

Added by edit:

By the way, I believe what I said was "you are wasting your time."

This message has been edited by Lam, 10-31-2004 03:25 AM

Added by edit again.

I'm convinced that everyone can be saved... from such delusional mindset. I have met quite a few christians that became christians because their spouses and lovers were christians. Well, if they could do that than I guess I could do it too, except in reverse.

I'm going to do everything I can to convert as many people like you as I can, even if it means seducing every one of you.

This message has been edited by Lam, 10-31-2004 03:33 AM


He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.

The longest word in the English language is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-30-2004 1:40 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 2:02 PM Lammy has responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 53 (154588)
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


Athiests have no message of hope to preach. Since the grave is the end to them, I don't understand why they spend their relatively few moments of existence trying to convince others that they should join their group. Some, in their hopelessness end their own lives prematurely when life becomes tough or unpleasant. They consider themselves to be accountable to no higher power, so there is no motivation for and no reason for them to consider morality to be of any significant consequence. They seem to consider the pleasures of the here and now to be the important thing in life and focus on the me and mine as the pre-eminent drive in life as to how one lives and relates to others. After all, what reason would there be to think and act otherwise if the grave is the end?

Many hate any who would preach any other gospel than theirs, especially a gospel which preaches accountability for the way one lives to be reckoned with in existence beyond the grave.

Having said the above, the above makes more sense than a deist who professes deism but lives in such a manner as I have described above applicable to the athiest in hypocritical disregard for what one professes.


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Tusko, posted 10-31-2004 10:22 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 8 by happy_atheist, posted 10-31-2004 10:58 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 10-31-2004 12:07 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 10 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 1:36 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 11 by purpledawn, posted 10-31-2004 1:40 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Lammy, posted 10-31-2004 3:13 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 36 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-01-2004 7:17 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 41 days)
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 7 of 53 (154593)
10-31-2004 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


Hi there. I've just read back over this post, and it comes out like a bit of a rant. I'm usually quite sanguine; I don't quite know why its come out like this. That said, it was quite fun to do. Anyway. I'm interested in your response, if you feel like making one.

Athiests have no message of hope to preach. Since the grave is the end to them, I don't understand why they spend their relatively few moments of existence trying to convince others that they should join their group.

Well, I dunno... Its quality not quantity, isn't it? Even if it meant that the amount of time that I expected to be conscious for was finite, I'd rather have a view of reality that makes sense to me and seems logically okay, than one that promised infinite existence and didn't seem to make much sense.

And though you make the argument from a Christian perspective, it could be used by a lot of people of other faiths. Why do Muslims want to convert people? So that they can have a nice eternal life. Why do Jehovah's Witnesses? Same reason. They have wonderful messages of hope to preach. Its perfectly nice of them, but that's not the point. Is it right? If its not, then its a total waste of everyone's time.

If consciousness lasts forever then it is an infinitely less precious thing than something that only last for a lifetime. If existence is something that can be snuffed out at almost the same instant that it is kindled, why should we get involved in spurious religious systems in order to place our lives in a broader context? If there isn't a supernatural realm of any kind, the time and effort expended on worshiping might be better spent trying to help yer fellow lifeforms. And anyway, how can we make an informed decision about the religious scheme that we should adopt? There are so many, and they all promise so much, with no evidence as to which is the correct one.

Some, in their hopelessness end their own lives prematurely when life becomes tough or unpleasant.

Atheists commit suicide because they don't believe in God? Perhaps this is true, I don't know, I've never commited suicide. Are you saying that no Christian has ever commited suicide? Or no TRUE Christian? The insinuation here is that atheists aren't really there when the going gets tough (slackers, all of them). This kind of characterisation just seems to be the product of a massive failure of the theistic imagination. If there isn't an afterlife, and we only have this lifetime to make any kind of impact, then this might act as a spur to get on with things. It does for me, anyway.

And though there aren't that many witch trials now, there has been the rather distressing tendency in times past for Christians to end the lives of others prematurely, when their lives become tough or unpleasant. That's not very nice.

They consider themselves to be accountable to no higher power, so there is no motivation for and no reason for them to consider morality to be of any significant consequence. They seem to consider the pleasures of the here and now to be the important thing in life and focus on the me and mine as the pre-eminent drive in life as to how one lives and relates to others. After all, what reason would there be to think and act otherwise if the grave is the end?

This argument actually gets me annoyed, every time that I see it; maybe that's why theists use it. It just seems to demonstrate a tremendous failure of empathy, or observation. Do you really see atheists running around the streets, raping and pillaging themselves happy?

"Oh God, its those damned atheists again, masterbating in the streets and stealing wallets." Call me crazy, but I think atheists are bound by social codes as much as anyone else. Wanking on street corners provokes stares from most people, regardless of their religious persuasion.

Israel and Palestine are filled with theists who do horrible things. Even Christians occasionally murder people. According to you this couldn't happen. Or maybe TRUE Christians don't murder.

Furthermore, it scares me that the idea of God is all that stops theists from doing a Columbine, excuse my French.

Many hate any who would preach any other gospel than theirs, especially a gospel which preaches accountability for the way one lives to be reckoned with in existence beyond the grave.

Pretty much by definition, atheists don't believe in accountability AFTER the grave. They believe in it BEFORE. That will do, won't it? And as for intolerance of others beliefs, isn't that something that pretty much anyone is in danger of expressing: atheist, Christian or Hindu?

Feel free to mention that Pol Pot was an atheist. This may well cause my entire worldview to shimmer and collapse, like a mirage in a desert.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 9:21 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 10:20 PM Tusko has not yet responded

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 3105 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 8 of 53 (154594)
10-31-2004 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


quote:
Many hate any who would preach any other gospel than theirs, especially a gospel which preaches accountability for the way one lives to be reckoned with in existence beyond the grave.
So there aren't any christians whatsoever at all that would hate to have muslims, hindus, sihks or any other religious people coming into their society and preaching? I personally couldn't care less who preaches what, as long as it doesn't ever get forced on me. Most other atheists I know are the same

Also, I would much rather be in a room full of people who do what they consider to be right based on empathy and understanding of the needs of others, rather than a group of people who only refrain from doing things from fear of accountability and punishment. I really wouldn't feel safe with a group of the latter people. Thankfully, most christians I've talked to fall into the former group. They don't refrain out of fear of retribution, but from understanding and empathy. That just makes them normal human beings in a social society, much like atheists

quote:
Some, in their hopelessness end their own lives prematurely when life becomes tough or unpleasant.
How does belief in an afterlife that is supposedly better than this life in ANY way make you enjoy this life more? What reason do theists have for fighting to stay alive? If the afterlife is better than this life, why not let this life end without a fight? That does not mean suicide necessarily, but there's no reason to jump out the way of the bus that's heading towards you, or to cling onto that ledge when you slip. The only reason is because this life is actually good, enjoyable, and worth fighting for. If that is what christians think, then it is irrelevant of any afterlife and they are exactly like the majority of atheists
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 9:21 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 10:41 PM happy_atheist has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 53 (154603)
10-31-2004 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


Since the grave is the end to them, I don't understand why they spend their relatively few moments of existence trying to convince others that they should join their group.

When you say "relatively few", what are you comparing that to?

I expect to live for about 120 years, barring any unfortunate circumstance. That doesn't seem like "few" to me, but rather, "much." Especially since it's all the life I probably get. In that case, it's not "few" but "all".

There's much living to do. If you can't shake the mindset that this is all a brief introduction to the infinite main attraction, you're going to miss a lot of life.

After all, what reason would there be to think and act otherwise if the grave is the end?

Why, pure, unadulterated altruism. Unlike you Christians, who have to have a reward in order to do the right thing, or a punishment to avoid wrongdoing:

Many hate any who would preach any other gospel than theirs, especially a gospel which preaches accountability for the way one lives to be reckoned with in existence beyond the grave.

See what I mean? I know it chafes that we're better people than you, Buz, but I wish you wouldn't take it out on us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 9:21 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 11:00 PM crashfrog has responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4347 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 10 of 53 (154605)
10-31-2004 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


Buz, I appriciate your attempt, but please leave this to me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 9:21 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 11:06 PM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded

    
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1649 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 11 of 53 (154606)
10-31-2004 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-31-2004 9:21 AM


Christian Suicide
quote:
Athiests have no message of hope to preach.
The message of "hope" that Christians deliver concerns the afterlife and the person receiving the message has no way to check the veracity of the message.

Atheists don't need to preach hope, but they can provide hope. What they can provide would be done in this world where they are held accountable. People know what they are getting, true or false.

quote:
Some, in their hopelessness end their own lives prematurely when life becomes tough or unpleasant.

A 13yr old boy from a small Christian Church. Family is very devout and involved in the church. Mother is a nurse. His father died after battling cancer for over 5yrs. This young boy now resides in the cemetery next to my house. He took his own life after his father's death, because he wanted to join his father in heaven with Jesus.

A devout Christian woman in her mid 40's, who has two wonderful young boys and husband, prays at the end of each Bible study that she wants to be taken away now to the perfect life with Jesus. Fortunately she hasn't taken her own life yet.

Over 20 yrs ago a Marine Sgt., who is also a devout Christian, kills his wife and children and then kills himself because God told him to.

5yrs ago a 60yr old woman starved herself to death because she had enough of her life in a wheel chair. She didn't want to be a burden on her family and wanted to join Jesus in heaven.

Is this the hope you speak of? We don't need to deal with the difficulties in this world because there is another world where all is perfect? Is it right to give people a hope of something that may or may not exist?

Jesus didn't teach hope in an afterlife as viewed by the Christian Church today.


A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-31-2004 9:21 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4347 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 12 of 53 (154608)
10-31-2004 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Lammy
10-31-2004 2:58 AM


(1)The bible says so.

I don't agree with this arguement either. The bible also says a 'morally perfect' diety lied, murdered and ordered his servants to pillage. I don't believe God is like how the Bible describes.

(2)Common sense.

May I remind you that common sense tells us that the sun orbits the earth.

Agreed, but common sense also tells you that touching fire might get you burned. It sounds like you're trying to generalize that all common sense will be wrong. This is not true.

(3) Nature reflects god's plan.

Most people who say this don't understand it any more than you do. Really, nature's pretty cut-and-dry savagery if you happen to be a little fly caught in a spiderweb.

(4) "I just know it... I spoke to me... personal evidence..."

You can't really argue either way with this.

(5) Everything must have come from something,

Not according to the updated version of 'A brief history of Time'.

the universe had to have come from something, and that something is god.

I agree with this statement, but I didn't get my reasoning without some hard thinking.

Well, here's just part of my reasoning: The world sucks. Everything about it is savage and dangerous. Granted, nature itself is good. Dangerous and savage, but it's good. Survival of the fittest etc.

One thing I've noticed is that the whole 'turn the other cheek' and being a servant to your fellow man really works. This is not just my personal experience; a lot of people made the transition from being hot-tempered and forceful to being patient and (somewhat)kind and noticed a difference.

Now here's the thing: By the very laws of nature, that's not supposed to work. The oppressive alpha male dominates, period. So how is it that a kind word and gentle reasoning have gotten me what I wanted?

The point is that although the Bible's depiction of God doesn't do Him justice(remember that basically the entire old testament is a compilation of fictional stories with morals anyway) there are some good points, especially in the new testament.

I believe in a God that is by His very essence absolute perfection both in power and morality. If He is perfectly moral, then He wouldn't send somebody to hell for being homosexual or for calling God by the name of Vishnu or something. I don't know whether or not the supreme diety would dislike these things or not, but if He has infinite mercy then I suppose he could let those slide?

Christians always say to me "Who are you to say what's truly right or wrong?" especially when I mention the above statement about homosexuality.(I've noticed those homophobe choir boys are usually the most flamboyant men I've ever met. Kinda makes you wonder.) But to counter their arguement, the Bible even says that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they became like Gods in the sense that they could understand what good and evil are. So even according to Genesis we have the potential and capacity to fully understand right and wrong.
That's probably the reason I'm going the way of the Christian church: Their stories do have meanings that I agree with, and lessons that need to be learned.

Look, I've rambled for a reason: I wanted you to have a little more understanding about what I believe in before you assume me to be a Bible Bumper. All I know is that those things about loving thy neighbor, which simply contradict what will help you survive in nature, somehow work. You get what you want that way. Things may suck, but if I were God I certainly wouldn't make the universe much different. It'd be boring as hell(heh heh) if everything always ended nice and peacy all the time. If life's not savage and challenging once in awhile, it's no fun. It sure looks like God realizes that too.

Any question so far?

Yes. How am I 'wasting my time' by doing my best to give people hope, try to get other preachers to make sermons and youthgroup services better, and by trying to get those more frugal denominations off your nuts? That and more are on my to-do list once I get ordained; even if you don't believe I'm trying to do my best to get everyone all enlightened and in heaven, at least you could hopefully appriciate some of those things that'll help people on earth?

(EDITED IN)

If you haven't checked my new site, you should. Particularly I think you should read "The World is Mine(as in, not yours)". You'll like it.

This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-31-2004 02:05 PM


God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.

www.xanga.com/BadPreacher (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Lammy, posted 10-31-2004 2:58 AM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by CK, posted 10-31-2004 2:36 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded
 Message 15 by Lammy, posted 10-31-2004 3:05 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded
 Message 22 by purpledawn, posted 10-31-2004 4:48 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
CK
Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 13 of 53 (154609)
10-31-2004 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by One_Charred_Wing
10-31-2004 2:02 PM


quote:
One thing I've noticed is that the whole 'turn the other cheek' and being a servant to your fellow man really works. This is not just my personal experience; a lot of people made the transition from being hot-tempered and forceful to being patient and (somewhat)kind and noticed a difference.

Now here's the thing: By the very laws of nature, that's not supposed to work. The oppressive alpha male dominates, period. So how is it that a kind word and gentle reasoning have gotten me what I wanted?


If you excuse me saying - that bollocks isn't it? - you have hit upon my key problem with dogma, it's not context-specific and sometimes your actions must be.

It's fine in many situations to turn the other cheek and all that, but in some it's inviting suicide. If you are walking home and someone high on drugs tries to knife you to death, turning the other cheek is not really recommended.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 2:02 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 2:39 PM CK has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4347 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 14 of 53 (154610)
10-31-2004 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by CK
10-31-2004 2:36 PM


It's fine in many situations to turn the other cheek and all that, but in some it's inviting suicide. If you are walking home and someone high on drugs tries to knife you to death, turning the other cheek is not really recommended.

You're right, I agree. I should've been more specific. The point was that in little arguements I've learned that I got more out of it by just reasoning than punching somebody in the jaw(the latter is still more fun, though).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by CK, posted 10-31-2004 2:36 PM CK has not yet responded

    
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3611
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 53 (154614)
10-31-2004 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by One_Charred_Wing
10-31-2004 2:02 PM


B2P writes:

Lam writes:

the universe had to have come from something, and that something is god.

I agree with this statement, but I didn't get my reasoning without some hard thinking.


Nice dodge. I believe I said

quote:
Well, let me see... first of all how the hell do you know that that something is the judeo-christian god? Secondly, if everything must have come from something, what created "god"?

My point wasn't only about what you quoted. There was more to it.

B2P writes:

Well, here's just part of my reasoning: The world sucks. Everything about it is savage and dangerous. Granted, nature itself is good. Dangerous and savage, but it's good. Survival of the fittest etc.


This is strawman for one very good reason: you are basically implying that atheists go by what "nature" tells them to do.

I just want to mention the fact that I consider my sense of moral standards far far far far higher than most christians I know, including buz and other christians who preach hate on this board.

One thing I've noticed is that the whole 'turn the other cheek' and being a servant to your fellow man really works. This is not just my personal experience; a lot of people made the transition from being hot-tempered and forceful to being patient and (somewhat)kind and noticed a difference.

Jesus wasn't talking about passifism. He was talking about being firm to your belief... if you have good reason for it. When someone slaps you on the cheek and you are firm in your belief with good reasons, you should symbolically "turn the other cheek" to tell the other person that you are firm in your belief. Passifism will one day get you killed.

The point is that although the Bible's depiction of God doesn't do Him justice(remember that basically the entire old testament is a compilation of fictional stories with morals anyway) there are some good points, especially in the new testament.

Well, I've recently read some of the Koran and I've studied Taoist philosophy. I can assure you that there are some things in them that are just as "good" as the NT.

I believe in a God that is by His very essence absolute perfection both in power and morality. If He is perfectly moral, then He wouldn't send somebody...

At this point, you stopped using reason and started ranting on your unsupported beliefs.

All I know is that those things about loving thy neighbor, which simply contradict what will help you survive in nature, somehow work.

You speak as if I go by what nature tells me to do. When was the last time you saw me kill my dog and eat it?

Strawman Alert!!!

How am I 'wasting my time' by doing my best to give people hope, try to get other preachers to make sermons and youthgroup services better, and by trying to get those more frugal denominations off your nuts?

You are wasting your time because you are telling them that there is something better in the great beyond rather than telling them to help make this world and this life a better thing. If you really want to not waste your time, I suggest you start preaching about the importance of recycling (I'm an environmentalist). Christians are some of the worst people when it comes to environmental health. If you really want to not waste your time, I suggest you start preaching about the importance of education and promotion of science. People live a lot longer these days than ever before simply because of science.

You can preach about the importance of tolerance of others that are different than you rather than say that god wants this and that. You can preach about a whole number of other things that are more important than hope for something in the great beyond.

That and more are on my to-do list once I get ordained; even if you don't believe I'm trying to do my best to get everyone all enlightened and in heaven, at least you could hopefully appriciate some of those things that'll help people on earth?

Like I said, christians are some of the worst environmentalists out there. Just look at Bush and his supporters

If you haven't checked my new site, you should. Particularly I think you should read "The World is Mine(as in, not yours)". You'll like it.

I have.


He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.

The longest word in the English language is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 2:02 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-31-2004 5:24 PM Lammy has responded

    
1
234Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019