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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: love one to another | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
John 13:34-35 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. this girl i know was raving about how her ministry group leader has a plan of how to 'reach out' to students on campus. it amused me because she personally does anything but 'reach out' to people. this is something i have noticed recently as i have shifted more and more towards the 'them' rather than part of the main body of christianity. through this journey where i have needed love and support i have gotten anything but from those who are supposed to be 'born of my same father'. i have become a bastard and an outcast. and so while i see that christ loves the outcast and takes time to discuss reality and real problems with them, i see that those who claim to follow him are more interested in discussing their own preconceived notions of how i'm a terrible person. so what i'm proposing is a bible study contrasting 'love one another' and
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
and
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
and
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
and
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
and
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
with
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
and
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.... 2Th 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother. i think the point i'm trying to make is that christ said we are to love one another, to love our brothers. christ said also to love our enemies. i think the point is that our enemies are now our brothers. since we are all equal in our sin and our tendancy to sin against one another, we should have no enemies since enemy suggests the superiority of the one. this is precisely illustrated by the story of the good samaritan. now. we read samaritan as being a person who does good deeds unnecessarily. but samaritans were people who were from a different city and were of i suppose a different sect of the jewish faith than those from jerusalem. people from jerusalem viewed them as evil idolaters and thus their enemy. this outcast on the road stopped to help his enemy. someone who hated him. i think it is important to read both sides of this. he who was thought unjust and evil was more compassionate than those who were 'of right faith'. we usually read this 'oh yay stop and help someone who needs it' and ignore the serious point that this man was his enemy he was a dirty idolater (at least in the opinion of the injured man and all other people in jerusalem). and yet jesus used this example. does jesus thus praise compassionate idolaters above the righteous who hold disdain for others? This message has been edited by brennakimi, 02-17-2006 11:27 AM
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
OK...Im moving ya to Faith/Belief
edit by Phat This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 02-17-2006 10:24 PM
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
eh. i think i like mine better.
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Jesus Christ said all of these truths, our God.
How could any christian support war? If you support the exact opposite of what God wanted for us, how do you call yourself a christian? Maybe I am judging a bit here but I feel it's a valid question.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The context of these scriptures tells a larger story.
NIV writes: Notice also that while the Disciples were indeed Jewish, Jesus differentiated them from "the Jews". Dispensationalist Theology has three distinct groups of people. The Jews. The Little Flock(Disciples) and The Gentiles...now known as the Body of Christ which comes out of the Church.
John 13:33-38--"My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come.Phat writes: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Why could they not come? Perhaps they lacked something?...Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later." Phat writes:
Peter asked, "Lord, why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you." The promise was made that the Disciples would someday be able to go where Jesus was going.Then Jesus answered, "Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times! Brennakimi writes: You have been hurt by organized religion. You have seen the hypochristians and the pretenders. That is why, like then, the church is not ready to go where Jesus was going. People always wonder why the Rapture and the Last Day prophecies don't come to pass. this is something i have noticed recently as i have shifted more and more towards the them rather than part of the main body of christianity. through this journey where i have needed love and support i have gotten anything but from those who are supposed to be 'born of my same father'. i have become a bastard and an outcast.NIV writes: Even a scientist would agree that the main element that makes a barren rock of a planet into an "earth-type life bearing region is water!
2 Peter 3:3-6--First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. Brennakimi writes: and so while i see that christ loves the outcast and takes time to discuss reality and real problems with them, i see that those who claim to follow him are more interested in discussing their own preconceived notions of how i'm a terrible person. Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
and
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
and
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
and
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
and
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
These scriptures prove the basic argument that the majority of people who make up the church are not ready to go where Jesus went.
1Cr 5:1--But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. This scripture can be read as being judgemental by aloof "Christians" who consider themselves better than other people. It can also be explained as a body of believers adhering to basic standards and watching the company that they allow to influence them. We all have friend who struggle with alcohol, drugs, emotional hang-ups, and other issues. We choose not to hang out with them on a daily basis as they don't help our focus (If we are being led by the Spirit) BUT...we are still commanded to love them and not to shun them. For what we do to the least we do to Jesus.
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.... Yes. We are to guide and admonish those who struggle. (That would include all of us, as we all struggle with something!
2Th 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother. Brennakimi writes: Great point! The only enemy that we have is the rogue "spirit" of pride, disobedience, and greed. i think the point i'm trying to make is that christ said we are to love one another, to love our brothers. christ said also to love our enemies. i think the point is that our enemies are now our brothers.Brenn writes: Yes, and there IS only One. The Holy Spirit! since we are all equal in our sin and our tendancy to sin against one another, we should have no enemies since enemy suggests the superiority of the one.NIV writes:
It blows my mind to imagine such a literal spiritual conflict, yet I see it every day in my own attitudes and the attitudes of others! Sometimes I am a downright jerk! As Paul said, Eph 6:12-13-- For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.NIV writes: Spiritual conflict is an inevitable part of the human Psyche!
Rom 7:15-16-- I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. CSPjr writes: I never understood this one, either! I suppose that we are afraid of losing our material goods if we don't defend them....but.... How could any christian support war? NIV writes: Luke 9:25-26-- What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?CSPjr writes: We all have a ways to go! Like Peter, where Jesus now is, we are not ready to go! I am encouraged, however, by this scripture: If you support the exact opposite of what God wanted for us, how do you call yourself a christian?NIV writes: In other words, we did not start the good work within us and we will not finish it so as to earn our way to where Jesus is. I agree with jar in that our behavior is important, but I believe that our behavior is only possible due to the work of the Holy Spirit that God has began in each one of us. We become the decisions that we make on a daily basis. Our decisions are either influenced by our own vain imaginations or by Gods Spirit working in us.
Phil 1:3-6--I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.NIV writes: We have two basic choices: Ezek 13:1-3--The word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: 'Hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!1) We can follow our own wisdom and our own vain unction. 2) We can acknowledge that Jesus is alive, The character of God=The Holy Spirit who can come into our heart and guide us on a daily basis.....not in a controlling or manipulative fashion but as in the fashion of a gentle teacher who shows us the right path and encourages us to follow that path. This message has been edited by Phat, 02-18-2006 12:52 AM Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
Yes, and there IS only One. The Holy Spirit! by one i meant the person who feels he has an enemy. he is placing himself above his 'enemy'. i liked the rest of it. This message has been edited by brennakimi, 02-18-2006 09:50 AM
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i don't really see what this is in reference to.
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Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
Hi brennakimi,
as i have shifted more and more towards the 'them' rather than part of the main body of christianity. I think that's a good thing. There's a lot of apostasy in it today.
this girl i know was raving about how her ministry group leader has a plan of how to 'reach out' to students on campus. Reminds me of this passage: Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel over land and sea to win a single convert; and when he has become so, you make him twice as much a son of Hell as you are. I'm not sure I understand what exactly we're discussing here. Let me know if this is right: "How do we love one another without judging one another, yet help others to see their faults or even separate ourselves from those who are dragging Jesus name through the mud by not practicing what they preach?"
i see that those who claim to follow him are more interested in discussing their own preconceived notions of how i'm a terrible person. I like what Jesus says about this... "Mat 7:5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye." The point is that we need to help each other overcome our sins and failures, but before we can help someone else, we have to recognize and take care our own issues. And it takes a lot of wisdom and maturity to know when and how to point out someone's sin to him/her. The sick need a doctor, not an executioner. Jesus handled the Pharisees differently than the "sinners". The Pharisees were quick to judge, so Jesus threw it right back in their faces. On the other hand, Jesus was slow to judge sinners, and told them to quit sinning after he revealed his love for them: Joh 5:14 Later on, Jesus found him in the temple and told him, "See, you have become well. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you." Joh 8:10 Then Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are your accusers? Hasn't anyone condemned you?" She said, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "I don't condemn you either. Go now and leave your life of sin."
i think the point i'm trying to make is that christ said we are to love one another, to love our brothers. christ said also to love our enemies. i think the point is that our enemies are now our brothers. since we are all equal in our sin and our tendancy to sin against one another, we should have no enemies since enemy suggests the superiority of the one. That's an interesting point. I tend to think of it differently though... I think the only enemies we have are our flesh and "The Accuser", Satan. If someone in the Body is willfully disobeying God's commands, the enemy is his flesh. That person's will has sumbmitted to His flesh instead of God's Spirit, so for his sake, we should do what Paul said: "1Co 5:4 When you are gathered together in the name of our Lord Jesus and my spirit and the power of our Lord Jesus are present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord."
does jesus thus praise compassionate idolaters above the righteous who hold disdain for others? If I remember right, the Samaritans were half-breeds... descendants of Jews who intermarried with the peoples of the pagan nations that conquered them during the intertestamental period. Just because someone was a Samaritan didn't mean he/she worshiped idols, though some probably did. So I don't think this is a praise of "compassionate idolaters". In Rev 22:15 Jesus says, "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Jesus praises Compassion and humility no matter who it comes from. If compassion is shown towards one's enemies, this is even more praiseworthy. However, he also praises people who hate the practices that He hates: Rev 2:6 "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." I think people drift towards two extremes: They either never speak up to defend the truth or point out when people are dragging Jesus' name through the mud by not practicing what they preach, or they start out on a crusade to convict everyone of their sin and put them under a "law" of their own making. Basically, I think it just takes a lot of wisdom and the Holy Spirit to know how to handle each situation.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
I'm not sure I understand what exactly we're discussing here. Let me know if this is right: "How do we love one another without judging one another, yet help others to see their faults or even separate ourselves from those who are dragging Jesus name through the mud by not practicing what they preach?" no. it's more like "why do christians spend so much time judging others and so little time loving others and in so doing drive people away from jesus?"
Just because someone was a Samaritan didn't mean he/she worshiped idols, though some probably did. i merely meant that there were unaccepted among most ordinary jewish circles.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
"why do christians spend so much time judging others and so little time loving others and in so doing drive people away from jesus?" Because they're human. This is what humans do. Why are you JUDGING these other Christians?
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i'm just wondering why they won't leave me alone is all, honestly.
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Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
Thanks for your reply.
no. it's more like "why do christians spend so much time judging others and so little time loving others and in so doing drive people away from jesus?" ...oh. because they don't know Jesus. This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 02-19-2006 03:06 AM
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
I sort of connected the dots from the scripture i know as I posted in the other thread. Your post gave me the initiative to post that.
It's not in reference to anything you wrote, maybe I should've made it a general reply... I guess I'm tryingto bate some christians into this thread that support war. They're not biting.Probably because they know Christ speaks for himself.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Its interesting that shortly after 9-11 occurred, one of my favorite Radio Pastors, Charles Stanley, (Who normally preaches good messages about the Bible and the way of Christ) was telling everyone to be patriotic and stick up for America! I tripped out on that!
http://www.intouch.org/intouch/... I never thought that a TRUE Pastor would ever support Patriotism over Christianity
changed display length of URL to fix page width (Phat, tsk tsk tsk) - The Queen This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 02-20-2006 08:06 AM
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