Question about Eve's knowledge of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

How did she know not to eat from it when "talking" to the snake? We all know snakes dont talk either, unless maybe she was on some serious psychedelic drugs. God never told her. In Genesis 2:17 it says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." But its not until Genesis 2:22 that God creates Eve. She wasnt even alive according to Genesis when God told Adam not to eat from it.To me its just these type of "small" inconsistencies that make every word of the bible impossible to be taken literally.If god can't even get the first 100 lines of the bible correct why should I take anything else in the bible as real? God's creation of the earth shouldnt be taken as literal due to such errors.Also why did God create humans before he put Adam in the garden?
It clearly states that Adam and Eve were not the first humans in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."Adam isnt even mentioned until day 7, when God creates humans again, as stated in Genesis 2:7. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." I guess humans were soul-less at one point too according to Genesis. Seems to me like this is in support of evolution. According to the bible at least 2 different types of human ancestors lived upon the earth before Adam and Eve.It wasnt until humans ate from the tree of knowledge of god and evil, which could be interpreted as a development(evolution) of conciousness, that they really developed self awareness and an understanding of right and wrong.This message has been edited by carini, 03-11-2006 02:50 AM

I see a number of points being raised here. Mind if I make a suggestion or two?The first is pick your topic. Is it about Eve not being told about the tree of life or the tree of knowledge of good and evil? I suspect the latter. So a quick topic title change might be needed.Personally I'd like to see quoted sections of the bible that support your position. Something like Click the peek button at the bottom of this post to see how I did that if you are unsure.If it ended there, it might be a promotable topic (I hope you have some counter arguments thought up for some of the more straightforward objections to it though). However, you then want to make a second and unrelated point about humans being created before Adam.Choose which one you want to go with, add your Biblical support for it, and we'll see where we end up, OK?

Let me know if that works.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Two possibilities: 1. Adam told her that God told him not to eat of the tree of knowledge. 2. God told Eve in a conversation that (like possiblity No. 1) was not recorded. This is probably a topic for another thread. My $.02 worth is this: if we accept the widely believed (though not necessarily by fundamentalists or other conservatives) theory that much of Genesis was written by two or three (or more) people independently and at different times, even though covering (approximately) the same topics, we could suppose, for example, that while the Elohist narrative (Gen. 1:1-2:4a) was primarily chronological in nature, the Jahwist (or Yahwist) narrative (Gen. 2:4b ff) was meant to be topical in nature, with events perhaps placed in order of importance, at least as arranged in J's mind.

I think I never really took the story of Genesis literally. IT seemed like a genral story line of how things happen, not a blow by blow record of events. If it was, then lots of stuff got left out. However, I do believe you can come into touch with God's word through reading the bible, praying, and seeking Him.The beauty of the bible for non-believers should be in God's promises, and in Acts, where Jesus promises us the Holy Spirit. He says when the spirit falls upon you, you will be a witness, that means you actually meet with Jesus to a degree.When and if you meet up with the Holy Spirit in a powerful way, then the rest of the bible will start to make more sense to you. The Spirit resides in your heart right now, so you won't have to look to far.But it is your subjective faith that will bring you closer to God.

move the chapter break from between 1 and 2, to between the first and second half 2:4, and try again. adam is a completely separate story from the seven days.as for you how eve knows? well, 2 and 3 are evidently (mostly) the same source. it might just be that some bits got left out. or maybe the author genuinely goofed.

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Come on.Not one good argument from a creationist yet?I want to see your literal translations and beliefs stand up to any sort of logic.I am not looking for any comments on beliefs in god. I believe in god, just not a christian holier then thou type of god. God is what created everything, he set everything in motion then went on his merry ways. He is not here to "save" me. Heaven and hell are things you experience on earth. Life is what you make of it.God gave every people different creation myths. If everything and everyone were the same the world wouldnt be very interesting.You dont have to believe in Christ or a christian god to be "saved". Christ is just a person who lived on earth. If you have to believe in Christ to go to heaven then I guess about 5 billion of the current residents on earth will all be going to hell.

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To me its just these type of "small" inconsistencies that make every word of the bible impossible to be taken literally.

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What do you mean by literally?

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God never told her. ...

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If you read 3:2-3, Eve tells the snake what she knows. The writer didn't need to add that she was told because this statement already tells the reader that someone gave her the info.Now if you want to go with the theory that when Adam was created he was male and female and God simply separated them, then you can speculate that she knew because she was part of Adam when God told Adam the rules.

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If god can't even get the first 100 lines of the bible correct why should I take anything else in the bible as real? God's creation of the earth shouldnt be taken as literal due to such errors.

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God didn't write the Bible, so you're barking up the wrong tree. Fables have talking animals, but that doesn't negate their value. Try and find the lesson for the audience of the story and not look at it as a means to support a religion.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

By literally I mean that anything written in the bible actually happened and is not all just a tall tale. Fundamental Christians, well at least some of them, believe that everything written in the bible really happened. That adam and eve were real and not just a story. That noah's ark really existed. That jesus was really the son of god. etc.To me its all stories.Lots of fundamental christians actually believe that god wrote the bible, thats its infallible. And some believe that god created the earth in 7 days, thats its not just a story but it really happened in 7 days.This message has been edited by carini, 03-24-2006 01:26 AM

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By literally I mean that anything written in the bible actually happened and is not all just a tall tale. ...To me its all stories.

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Thanks, needed to know your ruler.So are you really wanting to discuss the questions you brought up in the OP to see if they stand up literally or just start an argument with fundamentalists?I gave you an explanation in Message 9 concerning Eve's knowledge that wouldn't contradict the fundmentalist viewpoint.Your comment that "to me it is all stories" puts you at the opposite end of the spectrum from the fundamentalists. Technically, it isn't all stories.

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Seems to me like this is in support of evolution. According to the bible at least 2 different types of human ancestors lived upon the earth before Adam and Eve.

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How do you figure?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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How did she know not to eat from it when "talking" to the snake? We all know snakes dont talk either, unless maybe she was on some serious psychedelic drugs.

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While some consider Genesis to be a recording of history, there is no reason to assume that everything that happened was recorded or mentioned. Genesis does not mention that God or Adam told Eve about the tree of knowledge, but this does not necessarily mean that both did not do so.

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To me its just these type of "small" inconsistencies that make every word of the bible impossible to be taken literally.

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I agree in general, but the example you mentioned is not an inconsistency IMHO.

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Also why did God create humans before he put Adam in the garden? It clearly states that Adam and Eve were not the first humans in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Adam isnt even mentioned until day 7, when God creates humans again, as stated in Genesis 2:7. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." I guess humans were soul-less at one point too according to Genesis.

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You are mixing two separate stories. Genesis 1-2:4a and Genesis 2:4b-Genesis 3:24 are not a continuing narrative. Literalists usually consider the second to be a more detailed account of the creation of man (as in species) and therefore there exists some overlap between the two stories. Others assume the two stories have separate origins and were only joined in a later stage.So, God did not create Adam twice. As mentioned above, there are simply two different stories telling about the same event.

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Seems to me like this is in support of evolution. According to the bible at least 2 different types of human ancestors lived upon the earth before Adam and Eve.It wasnt until humans ate from the tree of knowledge of god and evil, which could be interpreted as a development(evolution) of conciousness, that they really developed self awareness and an understanding of right and wrong.

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This has nothing to do with evolution. This is neither in support of it, nor against it. It is simply a conclusion based on a misunderstanding and streching the text to mean what you want it to mean.

First, Then, Fundamental and fundamentalist are different words. I believe a person can be fundamentally a Christian, or a fundamental Christian, without being a fundamentalist.Does carini mean fundamentalist when writing fundamental?

Yes I mean fundamentalist.

I wouldn't considering it mixing up 2 stories. They are linear and follow the same train of thought and according to stances taken by fundamentalist literal believers in the bible they would have to have happened in order.Now any creationist who takes a fundametalist literal interpretation of the bible could not argue one bit with me here. Thats what doesnt make any sense though. If you follow a literal interpretation I would be right about humans being created at least 2 times before adam and eve, yet not one single creationist would interpret it in that logical linear way. They are too obtuse and blinded by their brainwashing to construct a logical truth about their own beliefs.And if they are indeed literalists of the bible they are at odds with their own thinking. There is no way you could tell that Genesis 1-2:4a and Genesis 2:4b-Genesis 3:24 are not a continuing narrative, there isnt a break between them. If god wanted us to interpret it in that way wouldn't he have ended genesis at 2:4a, he would have ended it at the end of genesis 1.There is no logic to the bible. People that write stories make sure that people know where one ends and the other begins, this is not the case with the bible.This message has been edited by carini, 03-29-2006 05:33 PM