God's creation-witnessed???

Ok, stupid question (probably asked before)..If God invented the Earth, in the book of Genesis, who was around then to "report it" in the bible??..The Earth is only the Devil's playground, something he may have created to exercise his power..Who knows?

---

"I no longer fear hell, but have grown accustomed to it."

Hi SA,No one was around to record it. Genesis was said to have been written by Moses a long after creation. Of course, nowadays, no one except the most extreme fundamentalist believes that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, but traditionally he is credited with authorship of these books.You may want to compare the Genesis myths with the Atrahassis myth and consider the similarities.Brian.

Even if Adam and Eve were the authors of Genesis, they were not around until the last day of creation. They were not around for the creation of the universe, planets, stars, plants, or animals. There were no eyewitnesses except for God himself, assuming creation for the moment.

Rumour has it there is a master copy reporting such things.

quote:

---

Mat: 12- 36 But I say unto you, that every idle word which men shall say, they shall render an account of it in judgment-day: 37 for by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

​

Rev: 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [that] of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which [were] in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which [were] in them; and they were judged each according to their works: 14 and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire. 15 And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

---

There certainly is a place for the dead. it is here on earth.I don't mean dead as in corpses, but in souls.

quote:

---

There certainly is a place for the dead. it is here on earth.
I don't mean dead as in corpses, but in souls.

---

What lovely company you must be.

1. Adam walked with a manifestation of God in the garden and communicated regularly with him.
2. Adam told his sons and so forth.It's a no brainer. Go figure. Who was around to record the elements such as atmospheric conditions etc around and on planet earth 4 billion years ago? Huh? 6000 ought to be easier.

buzsaw,The OP was asking for eyewitnesses. There were no human eyewitness accounts, which I think is an honest reading of Genesis. Do you agree?

quote:

---

It's a no brainer. Go figure. Who was around to record the elements such as atmospheric conditions etc around and on planet earth 4 billion years ago? Huh? 6000 ought to be easier.

---

The rocks were here, and they tell us a lot. None of those rocks tell us that the earth is only 6,000 years old. If Genesis is correct, then God's creation is lying to us.

"There certainly is a place for the dead. it is here on earth."REV 20:13

​

And the sea gave up the dead which [were] in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which [were] in them; and they were judged each according to their works: 14 and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire. 15 And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice out of the heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he shall tabernacle with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, their God]I don't mean dead as in corpses, but in souls. Mark 9: 43

​

And if thy hand serve as a snare to thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having thy two hands to go away into hell, into the fire unquenchable; 44 [where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched]. 45 And if thy foot serve as a snare to thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life lame, than having thy two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire unquenchable; 46 [where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched]. 47 And if thine eye serve as a snare to thee, cast it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire, 48 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

If that's the case, than there's many more extreme fundamentalists than you make it sound. And why sould they reject mosaic authorship? Why do you reject Mosaic authorship? I want you to know, though, that I don't think it's that important, but i'm still courious.

Don't those books contain not only Moses's death, but also events that happened long after?I don't know about you, but when a book about somebody is written in the third person, and contains their death and subsequent events, I don't tend to come to the conclusion that it's an autobiography. Especially if it doesn't claim to be one.I guess God could have hit Moses with a miraculous vision of the future, but why wouldn't it say so? And if we can just make up miracles to support an extra-textual claim, then why couldn't Noah have written those books? Or Abraham? Or anybody we wanted?

Hi Dav, They don’t have to reject anything, what they want to believe is up to them. They will believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. In my experience fundamentalists are not really interested in studying the Bible at all, they just blindly accept everything that is in it without question, which is fine until they try forcing their view on others. I personally reject Mosaic authorship for many reasons, so it is difficult to pick out one particular reason.The most convincing reason is that there are at least four different authors that have been identified as writing the Pentateuch as we now have it. The earliest parts of the Pentateuch have been traced to the late ninth century BCE, about 500 years after Moses was said to have lived.Very briefly then, the four various strands that have been identified were woven together by an unknown author/school around 900 BCE, and can be found not only in the Pentateuch but right through Genesis to Kings (except Ruth).There are four distinct authors, the Yahwhist, Elohist, Deuteronomist, and the Preistly. The idea that Moses was not the author goes back quite a long way, Jean Astruc voiced his concerns way back in the mid 18th century. The most famous scholar associated with this is Julius Wellhausen and the ‘Documentary Hypothesis, it would be easier for you to do a websearch to get more info on this, it is very very well-known so there will be lots of info on it. However, if you do want to discuss it, then we should open another thread to avoid dragging this one off topic.There are some clear clues that the Pentateuch wasn’t written until long after Moses was supposed to have lived. There are a few anachronisms, such as the city of Rameses being named about 150 years before there was ever a pharaoh called Rameses, Laish being referred to as Dan, or Genesis 36:31 ‘These were the kings who reigned in Edom before any Israelite king reigned’, if this was written by Moses then it was 400 years before the first King of Israel, Saul came to the throne in 1 Samuel 10:1. It was an important development in biblical studies, I don’t think it should make any difference to anyone’s faith, but I am sure there are others who would disagree. There seems to be a core of fundamentalist Christians who are silly enough to think that if one syllable in the Bible can be proven incorrect then the whole book falls apart. They then ignore the mountain of evidence that disproves many things in the Bible to sustain this delusion, but when I was a Christian I focussed on my relationship with the risen Christ and the sacrifice he made for us, whether Methuselah lived to 969 years of age or not, or whether or not Noah had a floating zoo would have made no difference to me.Brian.

You got that right but i guess I have one just as stupid.If the big bang is where all began, who was there to report it?The truth is neither creationists nor evolutionists were around when such things happened. We are both very faithful dont you say

While we are asking stupid questions, here is another one:What does the Big Bang have to do with evolution?Brian.

so when did evolution begin then?After answering that question the following isWere you or anybody there?
If the big bang has nothing to do with evolution, why bother trying to rove it?