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Author Topic:   Christianity as a whole
destroyed_turret
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 13 (51404)
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


Let me start off by saying that these are opinions I truly believe in and I will not sugar coat my statements. If this is offensive to anyone, please undesrtand this is historically accurate and it is not something that I am pulling out of the air.
"The Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven" -Martyn Percy
Indeed this is true, the Bible is a product of man, not God. Man crated the bible to document the horrible times of man and it evolved through many translations, versions and such meaning history never had a definitive version. Jesus was terribly important, he was probably the most inspirational leader in history of man. Given the title Messiah, he inspired people and founded new philosophies. His life was also documented by his followers across the land.
Moer than 80 gospels were to be included in the New Testament but howerever very few were chosen. Mathhew, Mark, Luke, John....etc.
AS to who chose these....it comes to conservative Christians as digsuting (I don't know why). Pagans decided the original issueing of the Bible. More importantly, COnstantine the Great. He was baptized on his deathbed. Before Christianity came into full effect, Rome's religion was sun worship, the cult Sol Invictus, and Constantine was the head priest. However, 300 years after Christ was crucified, his followers spread and multiplied exponentially. Pagans and Christians had feuds and the conlfict threatened to tear Rome up in two. So in 325 A.D., Constantine unified Rome under a single religion, Christianity.
By fusing pagan symbols, dates, rituals and so on into the Christian tradition, he created a religion acceptable to both parties (egyptian sun disks are halos on catholic saints, isis nursing her son horus is a mirror image of mary and baby jesus, the miter, the altar, doxology, communion...all from pagan religion). Also, pre-christian god mithras was born on december 25th, died, was buried in a cave, and then ressurected in 3 days. Also churchgoes go to church on sunday having no idea they are there on teh account of a pagan sun god's weekly tribute-SUNday!
Now, Constantine needed to solidify Christianity so he held a ecumenical gathering. The Council of Nicaea. Aspects of Christianity were debated and voted on- Easter, bishops, and the divinity of Jesus. Meaning until that moment in history, Jesus was viewed as a MAN by his followers...a MORTAL prophet and NOT the son of God. So now Jesus was a deity whose status was unchallengable. Basically, Constantine took advantage of Christ's status and has therefore shaped Christianity into its current entity.
However, because of Jesuss upgraded status 400 years after his death, documents existed chronicling his life as a mortal. so constantine made a new bible and burned the earlier gospels. Also, all people who chose the earlier gospels, were burned (heretic= haereticus meaning 'choice'...those who CHOSE christ's original history were the world's first heretics). Today, some of the earliest gospels were found howerver (Dead Sea Scrolls, Coptic Scrolls). These documents speak of Christ in very human terms. But of course the vatican had to follow its tirade of misinformation and suspend the scrolls from their release (the vatican is made up of deeply pious men who belive thse contrary decomunets are false testimony). This means everything our fathers told us about Christ is false.
ALso, the Last Supper doesn't have 13 men on it. It has 12 men and 1 woman. Mary Magdelene. Christ was not only human, he was married. A quote from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
"And the companion (in these times it mean SPOUSE)of the saviour is Mary Magdelene. Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed dissaproval. They said to him, "Why do you love her more than all of us?"
If you look closely at the Last Supper by Leonardo Da Vinci, this passage further solodifies the statment that Jesus was not a lonley man. On the left side of Jesus, the disciple supposedly being John is really a woman, look closely at her face, the contours of her bussom. Also look at Peter's hand, in a cutting like shape on her throat. This displayed the tension the rest of them felt towards her. Also note the V jesus and mary magdelene create. (V stands for 'chalice'...or the symbol for the Holy Grail, meaning Mary Magdelene, the womb that bore Jesus' lineage). Also it is important to note that not ONE wine cup is being passed around. All the men have wine glasses.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 08-20-2003 5:27 PM destroyed_turret has not replied
 Message 4 by epiphyte5, posted 09-16-2003 12:40 AM destroyed_turret has not replied
 Message 5 by epiphyte5, posted 09-16-2003 12:52 AM destroyed_turret has not replied
 Message 7 by maxthewildthing, posted 11-16-2003 12:00 AM destroyed_turret has not replied
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 10:16 AM destroyed_turret has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4979 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 2 of 13 (51406)
08-20-2003 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by destroyed_turret
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


Hi DT,
You say that all of your post is historically accurate, pity you didnt support them all with sources and perhaps study some of them a it closer. There is quite a few inaccuracies in your post, the one that jumps out of the page is this one:
Today, some of the earliest gospels were found howerver (Dead Sea Scrolls, Coptic Scrolls). These documents speak of Christ in very human terms
The DSS have nothing to do with the Gospels. The DSS only contain the Old Testament books, minus Esther, and a few scrolls on the thoughts of the Essene community at Qumran. I realise that your post is a snapshot of your opnions on Christianity, but do youthink you could expand on some points?
Is your reference to Da Vinci's Last Supper historical proof of who actually attended that event? If so, I think that you need to present a few more pieces of evidence to support your opinion.
Brian

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by destroyed_turret, posted 08-20-2003 5:03 PM destroyed_turret has not replied

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 Message 3 by Newborn, posted 08-21-2003 4:27 PM Brian has not replied

  
Newborn
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 13 (51601)
08-21-2003 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brian
08-20-2003 5:27 PM


Well done Brian

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 08-20-2003 5:27 PM Brian has not replied

  
epiphyte5
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 13 (55661)
09-16-2003 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by destroyed_turret
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


Did you ENJOY the DaVinci Code?
Glad you copied almost word for word from author Dan Brown's new book "The DaVinci Code". The irony? You're doing what the christians did to the pagans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by destroyed_turret, posted 08-20-2003 5:03 PM destroyed_turret has not replied

  
epiphyte5
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 13 (55666)
09-16-2003 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by destroyed_turret
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


I forgot to add...
You can pick up this book in the fiction section of any Barnes and Noble (and it is quite entertaining). But you already knew that DT, didn't you? Next time you write, don't try to pass off other people's words and opinions as your own. And if you do, check and see if you're reading fiction first.
Did you know that 'he who must not be named' might be coming back into power?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by destroyed_turret, posted 08-20-2003 5:03 PM destroyed_turret has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Brian, posted 09-16-2003 4:39 AM epiphyte5 has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4979 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 6 of 13 (55699)
09-16-2003 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by epiphyte5
09-16-2003 12:52 AM


Re: I forgot to add...
hi,
I also think that the first post smacks of Baigent and Lincoln's Holy Blood and Holy Grail nonsense.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by epiphyte5, posted 09-16-2003 12:52 AM epiphyte5 has not replied

  
maxthewildthing
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 13 (66768)
11-16-2003 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by destroyed_turret
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


Da Vinci Code
Dan Brown obviously has his fan club...your "observation" is taken(out of context I might add) directly from his best selling fictional novel "The Da Vinci Code" where he incorporates centuries old observations about "the last supper" - (a painting - not reality - da Vinci's perception of truth) - to tell a thrilling tale - fine book - not your own thoughts! ...be original at least...!
If you want a real challange, try an analysis of Nicolas Poussin's "les Bergers D'Arcadie" (Nicolas Poussin (1593-1665). Note the obscure incription - "et in Arcadia ego". "Even in Earthly paradise, I exist". This famous painting is also credited with secret Priory de Sion code - and possibly shows the true resting place of the Grail. Couple this with the Dossiers Secrets (1244 CE) and you have a real juicy conspiracy story..with some real meat on it...(Dan Brown is just a semi-talented writer who known how to compile research in a way that sounds like fact...instead of opinion (which most research is...)

This message is a reply to:
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 13 (66816)
11-16-2003 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by destroyed_turret
08-20-2003 5:03 PM


"The Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven" -Martyn Percy
A matter of faith my friend.
------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.
Thats a Whole Lotta Love

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by destroyed_turret, posted 08-20-2003 5:03 PM destroyed_turret has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5839 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 9 of 13 (66870)
11-16-2003 1:34 PM


Wait a second here. While I am loathe to entertain speculations about what a painting meant (I mean was DaVinci painting the last supper first hand?), and DT was not totally accurate in describing the dead sea scrolls, most of his statements regarding historical aspects of Xtianity are pretty much documented fact.
The absorption of pagan myths into Xtian mythology is totally dead on. Is anyone really doubting his comments regarding mithra and the others? Heck, he didn't even mention Dionysus, so in a way his commentary could have even been stronger.
And the collection/creation of the Bible we know of today by a Roman emperor is also true. I think there might have been a bit more intrigue laid down in DT's post, than actually occured (like I don't think there was quite as much burning of documents). But it was an emperor that got the religious community at the time to finalize the bible and the disputes which followed its canonization were crushed by force.
I think everyone is rushing to the weakest part of DT's text, instead of considering the accurate statements and what those mean.
As far as DaVinci's painting... who the hell knows... but magdalene is arguably one of Jesus's original disciples, and her gospel was removed in the finalization by the council (for what reason is also arguable). I believe there is a NONfiction book coming out about that very topic pretty soon.
------------------
holmes

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-16-2003 6:16 PM Silent H has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6258 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 10 of 13 (66908)
11-16-2003 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Silent H
11-16-2003 1:34 PM


As far as DaVinci's painting... who the hell knows ... I believe there is a NONfiction book coming out about that very topic pretty soon.
A "NONfiction book" no less! Just take care to remember that not all "NONfiction" is fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Silent H, posted 11-16-2003 1:34 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Silent H, posted 11-16-2003 6:30 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5839 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 11 of 13 (66911)
11-16-2003 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist
11-16-2003 6:16 PM


Uhmmm... actually you altered my paragraph and changed its meaning. Though I guess I should have been more clear. I was trying to say in spite of whatever went on with DaVinci (I have no clue and very little interest), MARY MAGDALENE was arguably a disciple of Jesus. There is a book coming out on MARY MAGDELENE.
quote:
Just take care to remember that not all "NONfiction" is fact.
I do. Take care yourself to remember assertions of improper research made before reading a book and based on one's religious biases are never facts at all.
------------------
holmes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-16-2003 6:16 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-16-2003 8:01 PM Silent H has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6258 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 12 of 13 (66936)
11-16-2003 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Silent H
11-16-2003 6:30 PM


Uhmmm... actually you altered my paragraph and changed its meaning.
That was not my intent.
MARY MAGDALENE was arguably a disciple of Jesus.
That's a rather underwhelming threshhold. Roswell was arguably the site of a UFO crash, but the arguments are not very compelling. If, however, you wish to make such an argument, it should make an interesting thread. Hopefully you'll have more to offer than P. Rylands 463 and P. Oxyrhynchus 3525
There is a book coming out on MARY MAGDELENE.
No doubt followed by some fictive docudrama to be aired on the Discovery Channel, filling the void previously left by the Shroud of Turin.
holmes, there are books written about all kinds of nonsense. That a book might be coming out on Mary Magdelene suggests, either, (1) that new and probative information has become available, or (2) that a new market for speculation has been identified. Which of these do you think it might be?
Take care yourself to remember assertions of improper research made before reading a book and based on one's religious biases are never facts at all.
Who do you suggest made such assertions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Silent H, posted 11-16-2003 6:30 PM Silent H has replied

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5839 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 13 (66975)
11-17-2003 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by ConsequentAtheist
11-16-2003 8:01 PM


quote:
Who do you suggest made such assertions?
You did. And you just did it again.
------------------
holmes

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