|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What is the oldest religious text? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
What is the oldest religious text?
I think this is an important question, one definitely outside of my area of expertise. In another thread, xevolutionist writes:
Zweemer, author of The Origins of Religion, found that the oldest traditions were of one supreme God and that other beliefs came later. I am of the opinion that the Hebrew writings are the oldest and best documented manuscripts that we have. I will take a look at the upanishads, but you are the first person to tell me that their writings are older than the torah. I did some quick poking around on the web, and found independent sites claiming that both the "Egyptian 5th Dynasty Pyramid Text" and the Hindu Rig Veda hold the title of the world's most ancient religious text. Ultimately, I would be interested to see a timeline of important religious texts, and the Torah's chronological place among them.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13017 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
What is the oldest religious text? one thing is certain: it is NOT monotheistic. the tradition date for the authorship of genesis/exodus is about 1250 bc, the hypothetical time of moses. (they were in fact written much later) moses was preceeded in egpyt by akhenaten (amenhotep 4) by about 100 years. he was the first historical leader of a monotheistic religion. he of course turned about 2000 years of egyptian polytheistic tradition on its head. so, uh, polytheism goes back a lot longer monotheism. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-19-2005 10:24 PM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you are running into the problem of pre-historic cultures that were polytheistic but did not record the faiths in texts or documents. you also have the problem of cultures ruled by {king\gods} which appear monotheistic because they do not distinguish between the leader and the empowerment of the leader. these would be regarded as cult beliefs now and not monotheisms.
and the hindu beliefs were and are anything but monotheistic ... the god of soccer moms eh?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What do you call hieroglyphs? They certainly tell us an awful lot about Egyptian life and religious beliefs even though they are not alphabetical writings.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
you are running into the problem of pre-historic cultures that were polytheistic but did not record the faiths in texts or documents. well, no, i'm dealing strictly with recorded egyptian belief.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There have been many many religions throughout history. Most have died out or been subsumed into other religions. We don't even know what most early religions might have been like. There are many indications though of what seems to be religious practices going back to times in the 10-12,000 year period, other very strong indication going back many tens of thousands of years. There are also the religions of Egypt and the other civilizations of the near East.
If we limit the question to living religions then the Hindu faith is probably the oldest, followed by Judaism. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
several google sites on {date rig veda written}:
Forbidden
The conventional dates for the RV in modern scholarship place the RV between 1700 BC and 1000 BC. An example of how these dates are constructed can be found on the Indology list. Some of the argument is reproduced here. Rig Veda - Audio download
Rig Veda (also written as Rik Veda in English) is the oldest of all Vedas. Some scholars date the Rig Veda as early as 12000 BC - 4000 B.C. http://www.hyperhistory.com/...2/histscript1_n2/rigveda.html
The oldest written collection of texts is the Rig Veda composed in archaic Sanskrit probably between 1500 and 1200 BC. http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Mystica/html/veda.htm
The Vedas are written in the form of hymns or mantras in an archaic form of Sanskrit. Most of these hymns are believed to have been composed around 1500 - 1000 BC, although some are believed to date back upto 5,000 years. and from wikipedia (Rigveda - Wikipedia):
Scholars standardly date the Rig-Veda to the 2nd millennium BC on grounds of its references to late bronze age culture (horse-drawn chariots; mostly bronze, but some iron weapons) and to the assumption that Vedic culture post-dates the Indus Valley Civilisation. It is commonly held to have been completed between 1500 BC and 1200 BC. clearly it is possible this is the oldest, but also that this is not assured. certainly it qualifies as within the group of "oldest traditions" and certainly it was not monotheistic. this is enough to render the quote of zweemer false. there are also ancient chinese traditions that were not monotheistic, and certainly all the native american (north and south) were not monotheistic. one point that can be made though is that each had one bigger and badder god in charge -- one head honcho, and it is unclear from the quote whether zweemer was talking about this aspect or monotheism per se. there is also no way to know what faiths abounded before written records were made, so to claim that all faith started in one form or another is specious speculation at best. {added by edit}btw: I made no conscious choice on sites other than the wikipedia one and make not editorial comment on the content (or lack) of the sites -- what I was interested in was seeing what kind of consensus there was on the age, and they seem fairly consistent. enjoy. This message has been edited by RAZD, 03*19*2005 11:06 PM we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
sorry for lack of clarity, I was talking about what preceeded egyptian. certainly the early egyptian religion had many gods show as you mention.
also, problem is that they can show gods but don't document the religion: the comment was about documented (a minor nit picked, eh?) faith.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
deal away. I was thinking more of ur.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Oh, OK, my mistake.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
Though I'm not sure that it qualifies as a religious text, Gods are mentioned a lot in Hammurabi's laws, which are dated to the early 2nd millennium BC.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
StormWolfx2x Inactive Member |
if we go outside of the realm of religious "texts" you can reasonably include the drawings of cavemen as well, I think most people would agree that at least some of them would deal with spirituality if not an organized religion per-se
This message has been edited by StormWolfx2x, 04-04-2005 02:28 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Perhaps more compelling are the cave drawings of the Australian Aboriginies, since these can still be understood by contemporary Aboriginies we have direct evidence of their meaning. Some date back 30,000 years - making Aboriginal culture the longest running continuous culture known. And the oldest surviving vulture known.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
watta Inactive Member |
In Kakadu they have paintings reliably dated to 50,000 years or more.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024