My explanation on the Young Earth

Nervermind[This message has been edited by BelieveMe, 10-22-2003]

You use this sentence in your discourse.
"Oh, you mean I could have spent my days lying, lusting, stealing, and murdering, DARN IT! Look what I missed out on!!!!!"May I ask what you mean by this?

Wow. You mean all this time there was a huge, unbridgeable gap in the hominid fossil record that leaves a hole in cladistics diagrams? Bloody cladists, geneticists, paleoanthropologists, paleontologists, evolutionary biologists, molecular biologists, taxonomists, and the rest of that ilk always going on about how good the hominid lineage is. Not to mention the geologists, cosmologists, and astrophysicists who've been lying about the age of the earth/age of the universe all this time. I can't believe I've been taken in for so many years. Thanks for opening my eyes, BelieveMe. Now I can get rid of all those textbooks, secondary works, and piles of primary literature files that are cluttering up my office.-------Alternatively, you might want to just maybe consider that all those scientists who devote/have devoted their lives to understanding nature just might have something going for them? Not to say you're wrong, of course. Far be it from me to question a True Believer, after all. Maybe you could use your vast insight and possibly let us know just where the gap you're on about might occur in the hominid lineage? Also, could you possibly let us know exactly how old the earth is according to your bible? Thanks.

What natural history has God given us in the bible. Explain where he talks about which species he got rid of and which ones he kept. Does the bible talk about the evolution of any of these species? Which ones did he put on the ark and how is this reflected in the fossil record? There are a lot of questions left that the bible is unable to aswer, IMO. Hmm, so the good old god of the gaps. We don't have every single transitional so therefore we must have been created. Ask yourself what a transitional fossil between a common ancestor with apes and modern humans would look like, and then go here.I'm not embarassed by putting forth the Theory of Evolution as the most likely explanation for the diversity of species we see today, much less shameful. Maybe you are projecting your own feelings on other people.Could you explain how man is uniquely created in the light of the genetic similarities between us and the great apes?[This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 10-22-2003]

This just goes to show how limited God’s wisdom is. Man’s wisdom has proven that civilisations are much older than 6000 years, even that stumbling block Jericho was inhabited around 10 000 years ago. How very convenient. So, by the same token, there is no onus on someone to prove that the world is suspended inside a giant cat’s butt? Much the same as a definition of ‘delusion’ isn’t it? Much the same definition as ‘self delusion’ isn’t it? God is real only after you accept that He is. Well that’s fair I suppose, so let’s stop talking abut God then as if it is something that is worthwhile discussing. Why would there be a link between ape and man anyway? I can sympathise with you a little here. When I was a Christian, I didn’t realise how absurd the Bible stories are, I never questioned anything either. This is the missing link between apes and men, and not the link between an ‘apelike’ common ancestor to apes and humans? Well we all know that the Bible isn’t a science or a history book, so why use it in a scientific debate? You have no idea what Jesus said about himself, Jesus left no letters or any other writings. This is a simple reproduction of Pascal’s flawed wager. This is a horrendously insulting statement. You are implying that everyone who does not believe in Jesus as their Saviour tells lies, lusts, steals, and murders, you are a very immature person. You also show signs of ignorance about the rules of argument. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, you say that Jesus said these things, now prove it. Yes the old self delusion psychosis again. God only exists if you really really want him to.Brian.

I guess this could be an example of how witnessing is a less-than-effective discussion tactic.

Hi Brian, sorry perhaps off topic, but do you mind discussing why you discarded Christianity ?Also, are you of the opinion that should you (for whatever reason) now believe in Christ, you could not be saved anymore as you've lost faith ?cheers

Why would he? Don't talk to too many unbelievers, do you?The regret that ex-Christians sometimes express isn't a wish to return to the fold despite a fear of God's wrath at our faithlessness; it's nostalgia for the security and bliss of ignorance. We know that your tradition says that God's grace is there for the asking, no matter what. It's just that we also know that it's all made-up. It's hard to forget something like that, or willingly return to a known delusion. (Since we're talking about the Matrix movies in another thread I'm put to mind of the scene in Matrix 1 where Cypher expresses his desire to return to the Matrix, and how stupid that seems to everybody else. Why abandon the truth for delusion?)

I'm not going to answer for Brian but nonetheless I can guess a couple things. Granted, coming up with examples of necessary things is much more difficult than examples of contigencies.Fatal Flaws come to mind, therefore I'll speak of that.DT 6:5, MT 22:37, MK 12:30, LK 10:27 Love God.
DT 6:13, PS 33:8, 34:9, 111:10, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11, PR 8:13, 16:6, 19:23, 22:4, IS 8:13, LK 12:5, 1PE 2:17 Fear God.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love.PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.
JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(Note: Every word of God cannot prove true if God deceives anyone at all; the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. The first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue.)
(Note: Some versions use the word "persuade." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)LK 1:26-38 The angel who appears to Mary to foretell the birth of Jesus says that Jesus will be given the throne of David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and that his kingdom will never end. (None of this took place nor can it now be fulfilled.)MT 16:28, MK 9:1, LK 9:27 Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago. (Note: This and many other passages indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. All of his listeners are now dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus recorded in the Bible are therefore suspect.)MK 16:17-18 A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm. (Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and drinking poison. This kind of assertion negates the Bible as a useful guidebook for life.)Stuff like that? Or I could rant on about the three "O's"?

Hi, A couple of deaths in the family when I was young caused me to ask a few questions that I did not get satisfactory answers for from my minister. I ambled along with Christianity for a few years more before I finally gave it up.A few years of studying the Bible from as objective a viewpoint as possible convinced me that the whole thing is a sham.The intellectual contortions that a person has to go through in order to ignore the errors in the Bible are embarrassing. The information within the Book is simply hand picked propaganda, there is very little of the Bible that has been historically proven, and as for the spiritual side of it, it is as realistic as Neverland.The logical inconsistencies, the historical inaccuracies, the editing of the text to promote harmony, the vast array of different conflicting versions of the Bible, the sheer impossibility of some of its claims, the deliberate twisting of another faith’s scriptures, the borrowing of myths from other cultures, the scientific errors, the fact that the Bible reads much better as a story book, I could go on and on, but you probably get my meaning by now. But you need faith to believe in Christ. I have no faith in Christ at all. If the stories about him in the Bible have their supernatural and mythical elements removed, then Jesus was little more than a con man. Now whether he was aware that he was a compulsive liar or whether he was deluded is another question. The simple fact is, nothing at all in known history has caused mankind a fraction of the suffering that Christianity has.Brian.