The Tower of Babel, why did God mess it up?

This thread is a branch from a discussion me and dragonstyle were having here: http://EvC Forum: When was the Tower of Babel Made? -->EvC Forum: When was the Tower of Babel Made?In it, I asked why God destroyed the tower of Babel?I found it interesting that God's grivance with the people who built it was not their arogance, or weather they followd a previous decree, but because he seemd to be scared of mans potential (as it seems to be the case in the story of Adam and Eve).The argument left off were I presented the point that in the story God states his grivance as: Notice that here he makes no mention of mans disobediance or arogance, but rather his own personal astonishment at the scope of mans ability. I argue that this is a sign of God's fear of his creation, a fear that man will get all 'uppity' and thus he sees it fit to destroy them.Dragonstyle counterd this argument by proposing that God did give a decree back in Gen 8:17 But I would say that this is mearly God instructing Noah to let the animals out so they can go on and multiply. Nowhere in this pasage does he tell men to go out and "fill the earth" as dragonstyle put it in the previous thread. If indeed the men are included among "the living creatures" in this passage, I would still maintain that this passage is not so much a decree as it is God saying "let them out, and let them go breed and multiply. No speciffic orders (aside from letting them out of the ship that is).I think this is echoed in Genesis 11:6, were God makes no mention of any decree he gave to man.Anyone else have views on this apperant conundrum?[This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-06-2003][This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-06-2003]

God knew that if unchecked, fallen sinful man with his tendency to revert to the depravity described preflood, being of one language, he would advance to something like what errupted at the onset of the Industrial Revolution some 3700 years later, would happen way back then and mankind would ruin the planet, destroy himself and effect the need for another global overhaul as is predicted for the near future. This language confusion was to keep mankind in check, and in no way negates the instruction to multiply and fill the earth.

Ok Buzz, that's an interesting take. However couldn't you aregue the opposit? That being that the confusion God gave the people actually led to turmoil and sinfull destruction. After all, it is the lack of comunication between peoples, the seperation between grupes, that cause so much strife in the first play.The attroceties of: Slavery, the american indian wars, Isreal and Palestine, etc. etc. are all the result of different cultures clashing and failing to meet eye to eye. Infact, before God destroys the tower there is a fantastic sense of unity among the people, and the tower is to be a testament to it: The final line, "lest we be scatterd...", indicates clearly that their great joy, and crowing attribute is their unity.God actually does humanity a diservice when he introduces new languages, because emedietly after the tower is destroyd they are all scatterd into the various tribes. As we know, these various tribes would go on to have a long and bloody history with each other.How does this do us a service? When infact history has shown time and time again, that lack of unity actually causes harm to cultures.

quote:

---

God knew that if unchecked, fallen sinful man with his tendency to revert to the depravity described preflood, being of one language, he would advance to something like what errupted at the onset of the Industrial Revolution some 3700 years later, would happen way back then and mankind would ruin the planet, destroy himself and effect the need for another global overhaul as is predicted for the near future.

---

Are you saying the best he can do is slow us down?If he knew at that moment, being omniscient, that he was only delaying mankind's trashing of the earth, why let it happen at all? He's omnipotent, right? This scattering of mankind, aside from generally condemning the majority of the humans who would ever live to everlasting punishment, had no lasting result. People went their separate ways, forgot their god, and within a couple of millenia were on their way to the same achievements they had been denied.Aesop wrote some better stories.

No, Buz, not according to the verse Yaro provided. God was quite plainly telling his fellow gods that man was going to take over if not nipped in the bud. Read it.

If God intervened because of man's intentions with Babel, and God was afraid that we would achieve anythng we wanted, why hasn't he stopped us doing the much more wondrous things that we have done since the Babel incident?Why did God do nothing when we learned to fly, why didnt he have a tantrum when man was preparing to fly into space?Did God change his mind again, he has a habit of doing this, it isn't good for an omniscient being to keep changing his mind so often.Brian.

quote:

---

Ok Buzz, that's an interesting take. However couldn't you aregue the opposit? That being that the confusion God gave the people actually led to turmoil and sinfull destruction. After all, it is the lack of comunication between peoples, the seperation between grupes, that cause so much strife in the first play.

---

Not imediately. These were all friends and allies in the building of the tower. They simply wandered in their various directions as the barrier discouraged their cohabitation. The waring would come later after they had selled in their lands and disputes arose.

quote:

---

The final line, "lest we be scatterd...", indicates clearly that their great joy, and crowing attribute is their unity.

---

You enforce my point above here. Thanks.

quote:

---

God actually does humanity a diservice when he introduces new languages, because emedietly after the tower is destroyd they are all scatterd into the various tribes. As we know, these various tribes would go on to have a long and bloody history with each other.

​

How does this do us a service? When infact history has shown time and time again, that lack of unity actually causes harm to cultures.

---

..........And all this had the desired effect of Jehovah to prevent them from their original intentions.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 09-06-2003]

quote:

---

If God intervened because of man's intentions with Babel, and God was afraid that we would achieve anythng we wanted, why hasn't he stopped us doing the much more wondrous things that we have done since the Babel incident?
Why did God do nothing when we learned to fly, why didnt he have a tantrum when man was preparing to fly into space?

​

Did God change his mind again, he has a habit of doing this, it isn't good for an omniscient being to keep changing his mind so often.

---

1. Messiah (Jesus) has come after having effected the sin remedy as sacrificial lamb.2. Israel must become a nation as prophesied for the prophesied return of Messiah to rule and reign the world in perfect peace for 1000 years as prophesied.3. Satan must be cast from heaven as prophesied and earth becomes the final battle ground of the universe for the demise and destruction of him and his host of angels.4. So the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles has come as prophesied and the industrial revolution has expedited all this and made it possible. Back at the time of Babel was not the time for what mankind was about to accomplish then.

So you admit then, that God's intention was to bring strife amongst his people.And why would a unified people war within themselves to such a great degree? They all share the same culture and language, by deffinition they are a Nation.Enemity and eniquity are what cause waring, and that is spawnd by cultures' inability to recognize other cultures sovrignty. So, wearas, we could have been one people united under one common cause, God went ahead and messed up that plan.He would have rather we be a bunch of disorganized people hellbent on anihlating each other using our selfricheousnes as a basis.God didn't stop wars, it was not long after these events that the very tribes of Isreal were at each others throats anyway.

God simply wanted it to be hard for his children to reach heaven not easy, that was the idea-Quiz

Can't argue with that. I mean, if I were a deity who had put together a perfect and wonderful place for all my creations to live with me, I'd make sure to put as many obstacles in place as possible, and ensure that most of them would end up screaming in horror and pain for all eternity instead!Honestly, listen to the things you're saying.

quote:

---

God simply wanted it to be hard for his children to reach heaven not easy, that was the idea

---

So why not just let them build the tower? They could never have succeeded in reaching heaven anyway.

There seems to be some confusion on this topic. I read the following ideas once:
People here have asked -whats so terrible about unity? it would seem to be an ideal state...and what is the point of separating them.?
2 possible answers:[1] The simple reading might be this -G-d did not seperate them as a punishment, but rather to make sure that His goals for mankind were completed. ie if G-d felt that mankind had made a choice that would somehow have consequences He felt were undesireable -He would intervene.Here, it seems the primary problem is that G-d wants man to separate into different cultures and not be all one culture. Why might that be? The answer seems to be that G-d saw that in the first 20 or so generations, man was not able to withsand the pressure of being evil. The generation of Enoch and of the flood brought destruction on themselves becaude they were united in their evil desires. Had they been separated, they could never have initiated each other into the degenrate lifestyle of the other; ie Unity is a negative atribute for people disposed to negative lifestyles because it causes the negativity to expand unchecked. But if there is another, separate group, that has different ideals and cultures, it will oppose the negative ideals of the first. [it seems to be a precursor of the idea of checks and balances on a worldwide scale]So here, these people were all united and G-d felt that mankind would never reach its goals unless they seperated for a while -so he separted them - not as a punisment, but as a need for their own greater good.[2] The answer seems to be that unity for civilaztion that has good as its purpose is good -but unity of a civilization aimed at evil is in itself evil. Why were they so interested in their own city and especially a tower- one commentator i read said because now, a mere 340 years after the flood, this generation had again forgotten the flood and the reason for it -improper behavior, and had decided that it would BUILD A NAME FOR ITSELF[see verses] - ie forget G-d, we'll build our own name..and if he thinks he can stop us this time we will be ready with our tower - not that they could stop a flood by climbing high, but the tower would be a symbol of unity -here is our city, you cant ever lose sight of it because we have one main tower -and G-d had promised to never destroy all of civilization again -so if we are all unified against G-d, one city -we can make our own name and G_d is stuck - He has tied his own hands,so to speak. So
G-d's answer -that's true, so i will separate you by making you not understand one another. NO more unity in rebeling against G-d. comments? added a few lines to separate out some paragraphs and make post a little easier to read - The Queen[This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 11-02-2003]