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Author | Topic: Anatomical Vestiges -- Evidence of Common Descent | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Vash and I have been having a discussion on anatomical estiges over on The Definition for the Theory of Evolution.
He seems to think common descent is bunk. Here is the anatomical vestiges link he has been referring to. I proposed I start a new topic and that we discuss them one at a time, starting with human embryonic tails. It's well known that, in rare cases, "true human tails" have been documented. It is also well known that a fetus grows, and the resorbs, an embryonic vestigial tail.
An atavism is the reemergence of a lost phenotypical trait from a past ancestor and not specific to the organisms parents or very recent ancestors. Rational Response Squad The tail's appearance and disappearance in utero is an atavistic trait. It's evidence of common descent. What's your take on it, vash?
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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EighteenDelta Inactive Member |
I would like to hear any ideas on the appendix, I have not read or heard anything in that vein for a while. I know there was speculation long ago that it was an aid to digestion, has anyone read or heard anything further or additional evidence to support this yet? I have been fascinated by this particular vestige organ for a while. The fact that it is not consistently located in the same place in the digestive tract leaves me a bit puzzled. It seems structurally to be similar to the gall bladder and prone to similar difficulties, obstruction due to mineral accumulations.
I hope that this falls into the category you have created here. Idiots speak louder than words (yes its supposed to be ironical... twice)
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Molbiogirl's link has this link within it:
Vestigiality of the human appendix It examines in some detail the human appendix.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
To sort of paraphrase Ned's link, the appendix has no known function. It does contain lymphoid tissue which serves an immunology function, but so does the rest of the digestive tract, and I can't see any reason why a lymphoid tissue needs to be contained in a blind sac. It certainly does not have any known digestive function. Some people are born without an appendix, some people have their appendix removed, and there are no ill effects that correlate with the absence of the appendix.
What the appendix is similar to is the caecum in other primates (and other mammals). In these animals, the caecum does have a digestive function: it helps in the digestion of a diet of green leafy stuff with a lot of cellulose. In these animals, not only does the caecum have a function, but it is larger than the human appendix, and it is located in the same place. This is what makes it vestigial. It is clearly homologous to a functioning organ in closely related animals, but it no longer serves the same function, and, in fact, if it serves any function, the function is minor. I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Chi, should vash show up here, I hope you'll stick around to help.
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EighteenDelta Inactive Member |
What does a perfect creation need an appendix for? I am more familiar with the appendix than I play, I am asking more in a rhetorical manner. My back ground does include quite a bit of medical experience.
What the appendix is similar to is the caecum in other primates (and other mammals). In these animals, the caecum does have a digestive function: it helps in the digestion of a diet of green leafy stuff with a lot of cellulose. In these animals, not only does the caecum have a function, but it is larger than the human appendix, and it is located in the same place.
That's what I mean by digestive function, in the manner of a gall bladder in that it used to contribute digestive capacity/fluids. I think that it is more of a clue to common decent than vestige tails and such, but that's my opinion. Is Vash coming back? He is workin off his second banning, I imagine he will promptly get himself booted when he comes back so he can cry about how persecuted he is for his beliefs. -x Idiots speak louder than words (yes its supposed to be ironical... twice)
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Oh 18! Help too please yes?
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
I'll bring some vomeronasal organs to the game if we manage to get it started.
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
eee hee hee!
This is going to be a par-TAY.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
And a fun one if we ignore the guest of honor.
I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
12 hours and counting.
I'm hoping he won't continue his "Nuh-uh" routine. I'm not as patient as you are, Chi. To wit:
It depends. I think that people could (and should be encouraged to) take the opportunity that some of his posts give to give substantial replies to various topics, like I've tried to do. But with you and 18 and Cora by my side, oh the wonders we will work!
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
My approach would be - and has been, until the thread I posted in was closed - to patiently ask questions, ignore any of the silly stuff, and just keep on pressing for honest answers.
Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin. Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2668 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Pars, in principle, I agree.
I know you are familiar with his work, but for those who aren't. A taste of the vash to come:
Most of the rest is telling stories on how life must have evolved. No science in stories. On vestiges, i would say i doubt whatever research has gone into this subject. Silly HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners) Why then the need to bandy words or debate semantics where an advantage for Camp Evolution would be gained by keeping the desired brevity of definition? Nice wording. What about when life was created by a creator and "evolution" is just a variation within a kind. I don't know what "biologically useful" means, and why it isn't useful to identify birds as things in the sky, and fish as things in the sea, and animals as things on the land and humans as the fallen masters of this world. Instead of the "Theory of Evolution" it should be called the hypothesis of evolution. The HOE. I like the bandy of words here at evc The intro gets you buttered up by playing on semantic mind games. Most of the rest is telling stories on how life must have evolved. No science in stories. The phylogenic tree makes astounding claims as to what evolved first, but this is based on mostly vertebrate life forms, what about the invertebrate? You know, most of the fossil record. I'd like to see a phylogenic tree from the cambrian layer of invertebrates. yeah, i understood the yarns that spun my brain around unneccesarily. hypothesis on assumptions on hypothesis dabbed with some theory and even some facts to top it off. The fact is the conclusions might be considered science by the extreme religious zealots in the fundamentals of HOE, however the initial guesswork assumptions are not. Or maybe its vice versa. whatever. Like I said before, vestigial parts are freakin hilarious. I saw one today about the ear ridge on a human. I mean c'mon! Where do they come up with this stuff. It's a religion, and should be left out of the definition of evolution. As for joining miobio chik on a debate thread about vestiges, i'll do it. I haven't laughed enough this week. Although it's going to be pretty hard to convince me that whale reproductive anchor bones are tiny vestigial legs. lol that gets me every time. I almost forget how good HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners) are at assuming things. That kind of faith could be put to good use. ;p Why is it always the opposition that doesn't understand? If I really wanted to immerse myself in scientific literature I'd watch certain porn. Because nothing screams ridiculous like midgets and absurd obesity. Anywise, I used my superior techniques of speed reading (of which you are completely ignorant and stupefied) to skim the all of the articles. I had read them a few times prior to enlisting to EvC so I am aware of "evidences" for macro evolution. Which I think is a bunch of fairy tales and that's how I would paraphrase it to someone who hadn't read it. Do you have any idea of the physics involved in sex magic? You clearly are ignorant of science. ME: 4.3 billion You: 0 With minor editing for brevity's sake, this is nearly the entire opus from RAZD's thread. Content free, belligerent, and dragged a perfectly fine thread to its untimely death.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
And he doesn't have any leniency left either. I don't think he'll be around much given his record so far.
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