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Author Topic:   The Genetic Basis of "Finding God"
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 1 of 21 (152856)
10-25-2004 6:26 PM


In my discussions in many threads in this forum I come across a common issue: the clash of rational and emotional reasoning in explaining the supernatural.
Since evidence is accumulating for a genetic basis of the way we sense, think, and feel, it seems that our "rational" or "emotional" response to a given experience is based in our genes. As an example, many psychiatric or developmental syndromes prevent people from being emotional (or unemotional), or prevent proper intake and use of sensory information.
Given that genetic make-up influences the way we interact with reality, is it possible that some may be genetically "susceptible" to spiritual experiences, and others genetically "resistant"?
Why do some people see an apparent image of Jesus in the clouds as a sign from God, and others view the same as an interaction of atmosphere, chance, and human psychology?
In other words, could genetic make-up produce an individual incapable of accepting the supernatural, and thus incapable of "finding God"?
If so, what are the implications for salvation?

Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 21 (152895)
10-25-2004 9:07 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 21 (152899)
10-25-2004 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
10-25-2004 6:26 PM


This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
I just finished reading over the current time magazines article on the "God Gene". It seems there is a gene for "trancendance of self" feelings. Something like the feeling that might be described as religious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pink sasquatch, posted 10-25-2004 6:26 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 4 of 21 (152900)
10-25-2004 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
10-25-2004 6:26 PM


This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
I just finished reading over the current time magazines article on the "God Gene". It seems there is a gene for "trancendance of self" feelings. Something like the feeling that might be described as religious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pink sasquatch, posted 10-25-2004 6:26 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by pink sasquatch, posted 10-25-2004 9:34 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 9 by MrHambre, posted 10-27-2004 9:16 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 21 (152901)
10-25-2004 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
10-25-2004 9:14 PM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
Dean Hamer is really pushing his book. But IIRC, so far his allegations have not been peer reviewed and even in his book he backs away from there being one gene that controls such feelings.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 6 of 21 (152902)
10-25-2004 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by NosyNed
10-25-2004 9:14 PM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
It seems there is a gene for "trancendance of self" feelings.
Interesting, I'll try to find more info on that...
Was there actually a genetic mapping study done to identify a locus? Or is more general, based on twin studies or somesuch?
Is there any indication that there are pro- and non- religious versions of the gene?
Separate of bona fide "religion genes", I think genes responsible for logical or emotional outlook effect the way individuals approach religion.

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Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 21 (152904)
10-25-2004 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
10-25-2004 6:26 PM


I just figure that my temporal lobes must be broken.

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Bob
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 21 (153330)
10-27-2004 8:35 AM


I don't see Jesus in the clouds nor do I speak in tongues, but I do have the God gene I suppose. The Bible addresses this issue in several scriptures.
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust for a day of judgment, to be punished,
I Believe it is called the gnostic view of Christianity. Some are meant to and some are not.

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 9 of 21 (153341)
10-27-2004 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by NosyNed
10-25-2004 9:14 PM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
I found it interesting that many believers criticized the "God Gene" hypothesis on the basis that it reduced their link to trancendent reality to mere biochemistry. I personally feel it makes more sense, and that I'm probably one of many who aren't producing the "God Proteins" in sufficient quantities for belief.
I'm sure Mammuthus and Loudmouth would be able to comment on the genetics (or lack thereof) in the concept, but I doubt there is just one gene responsible for predisposition to religious belief. After all, most traits are the product of a complex of genes, and the religious issue would seem to have a lot of relevant factors.
regards,
Esteban Hambre

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 10 of 21 (153348)
10-27-2004 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by MrHambre
10-27-2004 9:16 AM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
Instead of the 'God gene', could this be called the 'fuzzy logic gene'? :-)
This message has been edited by Nighttrain, 10-27-2004 08:53 AM

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Bob
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 21 (153354)
10-27-2004 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Nighttrain
10-27-2004 9:51 AM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with genetics as related to God. Too many of us look at genetics as just a collection of proteins. When in reality it is a very complex program which at least for the moment is very much transcendental. It would be like saying windows is just a word. I recently posted that dna was present in all life. If not I would like to know what life is devoid of it.

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 12 of 21 (153424)
10-27-2004 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Bob
10-27-2004 10:19 AM


I recently posted that dna was present in all life. If not I would like to know what life is devoid of it.
RNA-based viruses - though they still have nucleic acid sequence, so it is a minor clarification.

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 Message 11 by Bob, posted 10-27-2004 10:19 AM Bob has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 21 (153449)
10-27-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by MrHambre
10-27-2004 9:16 AM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
quote:
I'm sure Mammuthus and Loudmouth would be able to comment on the genetics (or lack thereof) in the concept, but I doubt there is just one gene responsible for predisposition to religious belief.
From what little I have read about the "God Gene" it is just correlative data. That is, certain genetic alleles are correlated with "out of body experiences" or other religious emotions. The danger in this type of linkage is that the correlation may be due to chance. For instance, the rate of autism in the NW section of the US is higher than anywhere else. Does this mean that there is something about the environment in the NW or is it due to chance? The activity of the gene product and it's effects on the brain must be studied before anything conclusive can be drawn.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 14 of 21 (153451)
10-27-2004 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Loudmouth
10-27-2004 5:11 PM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
Worse yet, apparently if you dig into Hamer's book a little (Carl Zimmer did a review in SciAm), it turns out that the correlation is highly dubious - there was only a very slight difference in "self-transcendence" between the people that had one or the other of the two VMAT2 gene variants that Hamer claims is responsible. Remember: this is the guy who also came up with the unrepeatable X-chromosome linkage for the "Gay Gene" awhile back. I think I'll wait and see if anybody corroborates his work this time.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Mammuthus, posted 10-28-2004 4:27 AM Quetzal has replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 15 of 21 (153585)
10-28-2004 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Quetzal
10-27-2004 5:26 PM


Re: This Weeks Time: "The God Gene"
Aha..that is why I did not find the study in PubMed. I had heard something about a correlation study of religion with genetics but turned up nothing. If it was in a book it would not be listed.
Hamer's "gay gene" or monsterous portion of a chromosome(it was not that narrowly mapped) fell apart immediately. While there may be a genetic component to being religious, it probably overlaps with a lot of other types of group behaviors...just find some praying monkeys and we can narrow it down using comparative genomics

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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